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Discussion Starter #1
Or, maybe, just an idiot...

I usually drive around ten or 12,000 miles per year and bought new tires last fall before starting rehearsals for a show I was doing. (Some here may remember my installation saga...just sad).

For regular touring-AS tires, I try to rotate them about every 5,000 miles. As I just passed 15,000 miles since buying them last September, I went in Saturday, and the tires have now been rotated five times.

That includes the three times they were rotated on Saturday. :rolleyes:

One benefit of having not found time to change my rear brakes is that they generate a fair amount of dust (the Axxis Deluxe pads in front are virtually dust free). The added benefit of not washing the car prior was that I could easily tell they goofed...when I went to pick up my car, the dirty wheel on the driver's side was still on the rear.

So I tossed the key back to them and wandered around for ten minutes and when I got back back, the guy was just pulling it out so he pulled in front of the door and motioned me over. Quizzically, I took a look at the driver's side, then the passenger's, and then walked back to a service bay and said, "Um, guys, you were supposed to rotate the *driver's* side...so now you need to do *both sides* again". So I wandered around some more, and then they finally got them right.

*******************

Even though lifetime rotation and rebalancing were included with the purchase and installation, I don't think I'll be returning to Sam's tire shop in the future, unless I have a warranty claim or something. But if I decide to, I'll take a yellow marker with me and write on the tires' sidewalls their "new" location.
 

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Really sad that a shop can't even be trusted to properly rotate tires. Luckily I'm young enough that I have friends always willing to help me work on the car... I only use shops in emergencies.
 

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Really sad that a shop can't even be trusted to properly rotate tires. Luckily I'm young enough that I have friends always willing to help me work on the car... I only use shops in emergencies.
I usually rotate my own tires as well (and do 95%+ of the other maintenance and repair). It's not a difficult task and rather enjoyable sometimes. But since they do it free and rebalance them (which they actually do, because the stick-on weights move around) I figured what the heck. Typically it takes me about an hour from getting out the tools and jack, which is a bit longer than it takes them to rebalance and rotate them.

I have a feeling part of the problem Saturday is that they were not very busy, so they had three guys working on the car, so there was no ownership of the task, so it wasn't done well. Sort of like Congress, no? :p

But you are 100% correct, it's just pathetic that even a task as simple as a tire rotation is botched. If you want to be further appalled, read this original occurrence: http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w210-e-class/1610444-my-experience-tires-sams-club.html
 

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That's brutal. I'm fairly surprised, you would think such a big chain would be a little more cautious about screwing peoples' cars up. I've actually been pretty satisfied with them myself, but both sets of tires I bought there were for cars that I probably wouldn't even have noticed if one was out of balance or something. But yea, free work is free work, I know I couldn't pass it up... It's my damn Dutch blood.
 

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I feel your pain! I have to do everything myself or I will be one way or another sorry that someone touched my cars and I have to clean up the mess after them!

I went to one of these chains decided about the tires (winter tires)/ ordered and since I was busy at work, sent my wife to have it changed once they received the tires. I didn't have winter rims and always just changing the tires for the season. In this occasion I don't wanted my summer tires back since they did not have much life left in them. Everything seems nice right? Answer is "NO"!

Listen this "the car came back with 3 winter tires and one old summer tire on the rear axel (w124)" can you imagine driving a car in this condition on ice with 3 winter tires and one old summer tire on the rear axel.... simply they thought that no one will notice it!

Story is long but now I bought winter rims and do even that myself to avoid going to shops.
 

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"you want it done right..."
has been my motto for years. I don't do my own tooth fillings and crowns, but other than that I don't leave much for others.
I don't rotate my tires at all, unless at some point I see fronts rounded up. We just had the topic in W124 section. BMW advise AGAINST tire rotation for better safety and performance of their vehicles. Not the first time I hear this opinion.
 

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Probably some miscommunication.
"Rotate the tires"?
All the tire shops where my cars have been to for just rotation or replacing 1 tire, the service adviser drew arrows on a chart
tire rotation pattern - Bing Images
so the mechanic would know what the customer wanted/ordered. If there's no chart marked, the mechanic would not do anything. Check the paperwork before and after the work to see if they had a pattern for your rotation order.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Probably some miscommunication.
"Rotate the tires"?
All the tire shops where my cars have been to for just rotation or replacing 1 tire, the service adviser drew arrows on a chart
tire rotation pattern - Bing Images
so the mechanic would know what the customer wanted/ordered. If there's no chart marked, the mechanic would not do anything. Check the paperwork before and after the work to see if they had a pattern for your rotation order.
I verbally confirmed with them that they were just rotating F to R and vice versa.

Their explanation was that more than one guy was working on the car. On the driver's side one guy suddenly realized he forgot to balance the tires, so he told another guy to go do that. That guy, not realizing they had been rotated, balanced them and then rotated them, so the tires were back in the original location. When I pointed it out to them, they then mistakenly rotated the passenger side tires, with the result that all of the tires were in their original locations, so then they had to rotate them all again.

Any miscommunication was among the guys actually laying hands on the car. Even if they had twelve diagrams, all the same, they would have screwed it up based on the series of events.

It is axiomatic that "many hands make light work;" but it is also true that "too many cooks spoil the broth."

Myself, I think the issue really was lack of attention combined with a lack of ownership of the task at hand. It's a comedy of errors and I was the punch line.

I just keep wondering how often that happens and no one even notices.


I don't rotate my tires at all, unless at some point I see fronts rounded up. We just had the topic in W124 section. BMW advise AGAINST tire rotation for better safety and performance of their vehicles. Not the first time I hear this opinion.
I hear the same stuff floating on the web. For performance tires (which is exactly what BMW specs for their cars), hey, they're only going to last 10 or 20K anyway, so who cares? Half of them are staggered and unidirectional anyway, so they can't be rotated.

But for a luxury/"performance" sedan with high-treadwear-rating touring tires, there is little question that regular tire rotations will result in the best longevity and even wear (assuming that the car is in proper operating condition). And if you wait until you actually notice uneven wear, you've already shortened that tire's life by some percentage.

The other aspect of not rotating them is that you end up buying two tires at a time instead of four. (And then you have to put the new ones on the rear per the newest NHTSA guidelines.) I can't see any "safety" that accrues from having two new tires and two worn tires, particularly given that it might result in really uneven handling in an emergency situation. At least if they are all four worn the same, the handling will be equal (good or poor) at each corner. ;)
 

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At least if they are all four worn the same, the handling will be equal (good or poor) at each corner. ;)
Accelerated worn. Each time you rotate the tire it needs to be broken-in into new position.
That accelerates the wear and lowers the performance.
Our MB do wear tires pretty evenly besides the front sides on the car I drive a lot ;)
Doesn't happen on wife's car
 

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This is not to bash anyone.
Brake dust is dirty and toxic. I always cleaned my wheels, washed the car before going to the shop for any service because I believed that such practice made the mechanics' life easier. It's like tooth brushing before seeing the dentist.
 

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Sheesh!!! Typical American ... you get your tires rotated by three mechanics for free and you still complain! :D :1poke:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Sheesh!!! Typical American ... you get your tires rotated by three mechanics for free and you still complain! :D :1poke:
Ah, I didn't realize it until now. They rotated them three times on Saturday...because there were three of them. I didn't look at nametags, perhaps it was Larry, Moe and Curly? With Allen Funt and a hidden camera in the background? :D:D
 

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Discussion Starter #14
And than you wonder why US ratings take nose dive in job efficiency.
Should have send the car to India for tire rotation.
:big laugh:



Suddenly I'm reminded of the old joke where the customer drives into the hickville shop. He gets out and says to the guy, "Can you rotate my tires?"

Guy says, scratching his head, "I dunno, ain't they already a-rotatin' when you drivin'?"
 

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BMW recommends to rotate every 2000-3000 miles at most, if you are going to rotate. Since I use dino oil in my 2 old BMWs, I rotate every oil change.

On my W210, I rotated every 5k and checked everything. I only rotate front to back, just for ease, though for a while it's been because all of my tires have been directional.

I use a breaker bar, then zip the lugs off with a drill. I install by hand, zip down with the drill and torque. Takes 10mins a side this way, and you get to check your brakes, wheel bearings, tie rods and rusty spring perches too.
 

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It's hard to believe such incompetence but the same thing might be happening to me at the Goodyear store!
 

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They probably thought CC is a pain customer. They told the manager, we always do it this way, howcome no-one complains? and manager agreed LOL
 

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I stopped buying tires from Sam's after they drove my 380sel into the wall inside of the garage. I use a local tire dealer now.
 

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they're only going to last 10 or 20K anyway, so who cares? Half of them are staggered and unidirectional anyway, so they can't be rotated.

But for a luxury/"performance" sedan with high-treadwear-rating touring tires, there is little question that regular tire rotations will result in the best longevity and even wear (assuming that the car is in proper operating condition). And if you wait until you actually notice uneven wear, you've already shortened that tire's life by some percentage.

The other aspect of not rotating them is that you end up buying two tires at a time instead of four. (And then you have to put the new ones on the rear per the newest NHTSA guidelines.) I can't see any "safety" that accrues from having two new tires and two worn tires, particularly given that it might result in really uneven handling in an emergency situation. At least if they are all four worn the same, the handling will be equal (good or poor) at each corner. ;)
Yeah, about this. I was thinking after two (2) rotations, have the tires flipped on the wheels for directionless tires. Or if you have unidirectional or staggered, moved them to the other side of the wheel in lieu of a rotation. This way you are now burning what was the outside on the inside. Considering how mush negative camber exists, you could really extend the life of the tire.

And that new NHTSA guideline is crap. I argued with a tire guy that I want the newest on the front on my FWD econoshitbox because then I would tend to neutral handling! Why would I want even more understeer?

He wouldn't do it.
 
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