[911fanatic]

What is the difference from the 463 GE 300 engine with 170 hp and the 124 E 300 with 188 hp (euro spec)?
Is it easy to obtain the 18 hp in the G Wagen in other words [8D]

Also - would a Barbus 3.6 272 hp hook right up to the transmission ++in a GE 300?

 

[Brent]

I can't say for sure but I suspect that the only difference is a camshaft change. The G version likely has a little stronger torque rating at a lower rpm. Considering the G wieghs so much more I think I would leave it that way or you are likely to lose performance.

The 3.6 is based on the M103/104 engines and the bellhousing will be the same. That would be a great upgrade. I would confirm which 3.6 version you are considering to swap in. On a 300GE I would want the single cam M103 based version just ofr ease of conversion. The twin cam M104 version has more power but will also require the electronic control units to make it run. That would be a slightly more involved change.

 

[911fanatic]

Thanks Brent!

I've made an offer on a 463 GE 300 cab - and also found a crashed Brabus 3.6 124 stationwagon for 3000 euros for the whole car. Considering the weight advantage from a V8 I guess it performs well. Would it be a good idea to change the transmission too - or are they the same? Is the M103 out of the 124 series?

 

[G560]

hello to norway once again,

the difference between an E-engine and a G-engine (M103) is only the compression. (in the G lower)! swap is an easy plug and play job.
you may use various parts from the G though.
(oilpannel (deeper), alternator (snorkel), etc. )

the 3,6 (if M103 based) fits to the trans plug and play as well. but it eats headgaskets (1 in 15-20k km) and other expensive parts. (headgasket @ brabus about 1000 euros).
a bit more work is required for the cabeling of the 3,6 but if somebody knows how to do it, a rather nice (lighweight) biest of G can be the outcome.
i know a very light swb in 3,6 (but M104) which is as fast as the G560 !

good luck
flo

 

[911fanatic]

Hey Flo!

I remember you asked about the Speedsters and GumBall 3000. My Speedster is out of the paintshop in a week or two - I'll try to send you som pictures
when the car is complete - it has been a project since 2000....

Brabus - so is the M103 a 12V engine and the M104 a 24v? Does the M104 blow gaskets on a regular bases too? Is there some way to prevent this? A lot of questions from a rookie.....[]

 

[Tjærand]

The M104 in E/TE are known for blowing gaskets faster than the M103. The M103 is _very_ reliable as long as the KE-Jetronic behaves. Also, the M103 has mechanical injection aided by electronics. It will run even if the electronics fails. It is also very simple to work on, and the availability of parts here in Norway is very good. I do not know if the 3.6 has different injection though...

 

[Brent]

I think that, as mentioned, the M103 is a very good engine. They do not have a headgasket problem and that engine was in the early 124 series cars. In the US the only 124 we got at its introduction was the 300E with the M103 engine.

I'm not convinced that compression is the difference. It was on the M110 in the 280Ge but I think on the M103-104 engines the compression is the same as the sedans.

As to the 3.6 eating headgaskets every 15-20,000 km, I have never heard that they were that bad. In fact pretty much the same conversion by AMG was sold in the states in M104 form as the C36. Most M104s do eat one headgasket in their lifetime, mine did. All of the mechanics I have talked to say that after replacement they rarely if ever see one come back. The 3.6 is essentially a stroked engine, maybe a slight bore increase but not enough IMO to make the headgasket any more of an issue than it is in a 3 or 3.2L M104. The M103 (single cam 12V) in a 3.6 is pretty much my ideal powerplant for a 300GE. I would keep the G transmission and as mentioned swap the G's oil pan over for the baffle inside. The M104 is a little more complex as mentioned too, though the extra power is nice.

 

[G560]

911fanatic - 2/21/2005 10:51 AM
Brabus - so is the M103 a 12V engine and the M104 a 24v? Does the M104 blow gaskets on a regular bases too? Is there some way to prevent this? A lot of questions from a rookie.....[]

look, that's right.
M104 available as 2,8 and 3,2 and ... 3,6 amg (and others (even 3,8 versions out there (mkb))),
4valve, reliable,

M103 as 3,0 and as 3,6 from brabus and amg (and possible others). 2valve and as 3,0 VERY reliable as said before. BUT as 3,6 it's streched to the limits and has, among other things, a heat problem. hence: as 3,6 varius blown up headgaskets and even entire blownup heads and engines have been reported, specially in a G, where the engine has to work twice as hard as in an E.
there is a reason they went for a lower compression ratio in the G (as 3,0), and this IS the reason for a bit less power. but therefore it lives longer and has a bullet proof reputation. if you bore it up to 3,6, increase the compression, and actually USE the power you created, the engine wont be as reliable.

that's different with the M104. it had more reserves from the beginning and therfore it is the better engine in 3,6 !
the G 3,6 i was talking about is a M104 (complete technic from a C36).
Note: installment of a M104 in a 300GE might be a bit more work, but in a G320 it would be the same plug and play job like it is with a 300GE and a M103 3,6 engine.

whether a gearbox from a 300GE would fit to M104 i don't know on top of my head, but i could find out if necessary.

would love to see the pictures from the 911, it was one of these rare narrowbody 964's, right ?

 

[911fanatic]

Flo, funny you mentioned the C36 - because that seems to be the car to get from Germany - take out the engine and possibly the transmission?? if I have to change that too - could you check that? - then part out the whole car - and whola = a fairly cheap conversion [8D]

My Speedster is a 965 - turbo/widebody - car. Didn't care for the narrow body looks - so I had mine build from scratch. There are only 14 original 964 widebody Speedsters ever made - one just for sale at mobile.de for 155 000 euros - far out of my price range...[]