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Premium Member
1998 E320 base sedan @ 160kmiles
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6,195 Posts
I've had Mercedes for 30 years and had always thought that they recommended synthetic from day 1 for FSS cars. Probably how the class action law suit came. Interesting what the other poster showed about his 1999 and no recommendation as to the type of oil.

Of course, if you want to run conventional oil in your cars and take them to 13,000 miles , feel free.
No.. It is very clear in the body of the lawsuit. MB originally recommended conventional oil with FSS equipped cars, but once the customers complaints came in, they switched to pure synthetic oil in oil changes at service centers staring March 2001. They gave $35 vouchers to those who owned 1998, or 1999 cars towards synthetic oil changes.
 

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W210 Moderator
99 E320
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5,042 Posts
A couple of months ago, I decided to flip through the notes and coupons under the
refrigerator magnets. $300 cash, Harbor Freight $160 cash card, Costco cashback
$90, $20 gift coupon from local bakery, $900 credit card cashback check, a birthday
card (and $) for my 1 yr old niece who is now 2 yrs old....and expired MB oil change
coupon. Fortunately, only the MB coupon was void. I've cleaned everything off the
refrigerator now.
 

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1996 SL500, 2000 E430
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3,670 Posts
One more time for you too. I got you the last time.

I think it’s pretty crazy running a conventional oil to 13,000 miles much less pulling a trailer but if you’ve had good luck with it good for you.

As I said before I was surprised given that flexible service system that Diamler did not require synthetics from day one

That probably brought that class action suit years ago, but I already mentioned that to
 

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Premium Member
1998 E320 base sedan @ 160kmiles
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6,195 Posts
There is big difference between conventional oil of pre-2000 (SH class) and now (SN+ class), in terms of temperature rating, sludge formation, additives, etc. The price of some quality conventional oil has risen to a level that is less than a buck per quart than the base synthetic oil. So, it really makes very little sense to use conventional oil, in my opinion.
 

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E320/E250 Bluetec Ford F350 6.7l
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36,327 Posts
When it is hard to tell directly from the chart, MB still allows dino or at least blends on their engines. It is only US, where lawyers dictate what oils we can use.
 

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W221 & Audio Moderator
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267 Posts
Also, the dealer removes the oil using a suction device - they do not have to get underneath the vehicle. Also, the o-rings for the oil plug per manufacturer are "one time use" suggesting they be replaced at every removal of the oil plug. That, of course, is up to you.
 

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2 Posts
I do my own oil changes. Just changed oil on my E420 and SL500. Synthetic on sale was $5.99/qt, filter with my discount was $13, and that's for the paper filter the E420 and SL use, not the fleese filter. Car uses 8 liters=8.5 qts, so you need 9 quarts to do a fill. so 9qtsx6= 54 for the oil +13 for the filter is $67 just for the material. So, $100 for a shop isn't out of line.
You need to check Walmart or a similar big box store. Mobil 1 0w40 euro formula is about $26 for a 5 quart jug. Only reason I go there. As for the filter, I thought MB recommended the fleece with synthetic, particularly in the SL500/M113.
 

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Premium Member
97 E-420 (180K miles), 97 SL500, (93K miles) 2015 GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD CC/SB/4x4 Duramax(55K)
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4,215 Posts
You need to check Walmart or a similar big box store. Mobil 1 0w40 euro formula is about $26 for a 5 quart jug. Only reason I go there. As for the filter, I thought MB recommended the fleece with synthetic, particularly in the SL500/M113.
Well, for starters,both my cars have M119 engine, not the M113, the MB oil spec for the M119 is NOT 0w40. Unless it is consistently below freezing, recomended oil is 20W-50. IIRC the lightest recomended oil for cold climates is a 10W-30. and the M119 does NOT use the fleece filter regardless of oil but the paper filter. Occasionally I've found very good prices on the 20W-50 synthetic, but it or even a 20W-40 is not a common oil anymore. The M119 was designed before fuel economy was a super high priority and before the lightweight oils became reliable. The M119 was first introduced almost 30 years ago, 1991.
 

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2007 E350, 92k miles
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7 Posts
When Flexible Service System, first came out in 1998, I recall reading about all of the variables the system took into consideration (time, engine RPM, mileage temperature(?), but also a sensor that somehow detected the quality of the oil too. I always remember this, but never heard much more about it after that, and it seemed to just be based on mileage and time.

Anyone have any info on this?
 

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Premium Member
1998 E320 base sedan @ 160kmiles
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6,195 Posts
The sensor measures the oil level, temperature, and the capacitance (of a specific level of oil in a sensor chamber). The capacitance depends on contaminants in the oil (water, carbon particles, burnt fuel specs, etc.). I do not find that it is adequate. The oil quality may be acceptable after extended mileage, but the additives in the oil may be depleted, regardless of the oil being conventional or synthetic, as the same oil company will likely use the same additives, and for some premium oil, may be more of them.
 

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2 Posts
Well, for starters,both my cars have M119 engine, not the M113, the MB oil spec for the M119 is NOT 0w40. Unless it is consistently below freezing, recomended oil is 20W-50. IIRC the lightest recomended oil for cold climates is a 10W-30. and the M119 does NOT use the fleece filter regardless of oil but the paper filter. Occasionally I've found very good prices on the 20W-50 synthetic, but it or even a 20W-40 is not a common oil anymore. The M119 was designed before fuel economy was a super high priority and before the lightweight oils became reliable. The M119 was first introduced almost 30 years ago, 1991.
After I posted, I thought I should have checked your profile to see the year of your SL500. Forgot the early 500's were the M119. MB really got their moneys worth on the designs of post Pagoda SL's!
Yes, 20W50 is harder to find now as it is an uncommon spec for current engines. Just did a search on this and a couple of other MB forums and M119 oil viscosity has been a very deep subject. Looks like many are moving to a 10W or 5W40 synthetic for many various. Have fun if you decide to research this!
 

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E320/E250 Bluetec Ford F350 6.7l
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When Flexible Service System, first came out in 1998, I recall reading about all of the variables the system took into consideration (time, engine RPM, mileage temperature(?), but also a sensor that somehow detected the quality of the oil too. I always remember this, but never heard much more about it after that, and it seemed to just be based on mileage and time.

Anyone have any info on this?
Our 1997-build ML320 had FSS.
Per my experience the program gives lot of BS.
Our heavier ML, was dictating 13k miles oil change intervals regardless if run on dino, or synthetic oils, towing 5000 lb trailers or not.
Same engine in sedan had the same 13k intervals, so we are talking 1/2 of fuel burn in the period and yet, still the same intervals.
 

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W210 Moderator
99 E320
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5,042 Posts
When Flexible Service System, first came out in 1998, I recall reading about all of the variables the system took into consideration (time, engine RPM, mileage temperature(?), but also a sensor that somehow detected the quality of the oil too. I always remember this, but never heard much more about it after that, and it seemed to just be based on mileage and time.

Anyone have any info on this?
 

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Premium Member
97 E-420 (180K miles), 97 SL500, (93K miles) 2015 GMC Sierra Denali 2500HD CC/SB/4x4 Duramax(55K)
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4,215 Posts
After I posted, I thought I should have checked your profile to see the year of your SL500. Forgot the early 500's were the M119. MB really got their moneys worth on the designs of post Pagoda SL's!
Yes, 20W50 is harder to find now as it is an uncommon spec for current engines. Just did a search on this and a couple of other MB forums and M119 oil viscosity has been a very deep subject. Looks like many are moving to a 10W or 5W40 synthetic for many various. Have fun if you decide to research this!
Yes, M119 oil viscosity is a common subject. Some whom have switched to a lower viscosity have experienced instances of low oil pressure, usually seems to be those in higher temp climates. Oil pumps are typically a pressure limited constant volume pump, with a pressure relief to keep pressures from going to high. However being constant volume, low viscosity translates into lower pressure. The M119 was designed around a set of oil viscosities and resulting clearances etc. So, for now I'm just going to stick with the original factory recomended oil viscosities. But at some ;point I suspect the 20W-50 or even 20W-40 is going to be quite hard to find and I'll need to look into a 10W-40 or similar.
 

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1996 SL500, 2000 E430
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3,670 Posts
I've used a low viscosity synthetic in my SL - M119 - ever since I got it - and original owner did the same. Engine now has 203,000 miles and hardly consumes a drop of oil. The only eerie thing in our hot 100+ summers at idle the needle will be around zero ;-) (which is why I suspect they tool the oil pressure gauge out in later models)
 

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2002 E430 Sprt/w W211 wheels
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122 Posts
Why is everyone so particular about putting the W40 in the M112/M113? Is it really much different than W30? In my service/maint. booklet. W40 and W30 have same temp. ranges so I just use W30 Synthetic. Should I be worried about it and switch to W40 on my next oil change?
 

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Premium Member
1998 E320 base sedan @ 160kmiles
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6,195 Posts
Why is everyone so particular about putting the W40 in the M112/M113? Is it really much different than W30? In my service/maint. booklet. W40 and W30 have same temp. ranges so I just use W30 Synthetic. Should I be worried about it and switch to W40 on my next oil change?
I would not worry about it. I would not rely on the FSS either. I put 8.5 quarts of oil at each oil change for a 3.2 L V6 M112 engine, and put 5 quarts in a 4.3 L V8 LS430 engine. So you have more of oil for less of engine displacement. No wonder the MBs have extended oil service intervals.
 

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E320/E250 Bluetec Ford F350 6.7l
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36,327 Posts
Why is everyone so particular about putting the W40 in the M112/M113? Is it really much different than W30? In my service/maint. booklet. W40 and W30 have same temp. ranges so I just use W30 Synthetic. Should I be worried about it and switch to W40 on my next oil change?
It took about 30 years to get the message that "oil change 3000" no longer apply with modern technology, so what do you expect?
Advantage of synthetics is high % of molybdenum in it. Molybdenum penetrates metal surface and gives it good lubrication even with no oil pressure. Just like Teflon in lot of electric motors and small gears, who can work for years with no oil at all.
Meaning 30 weigh modern oil gives way better protection than 50 weight from 20 years ago.
My SL500 had actuall oil pressure gauge. When filled with modern oil and driven in 120F weather, the gauge at idle would show a touch above 0, occasionally showing actuall 0.
That's why car manufacturer cancel pressure gauges on modern cars, becouse uneducated owners panic too easy.
Lastly , if you are really worry, Blackstone Lab charges $28 for oil test. Shipping included.
 
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