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2000 E430 4matic
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58 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello all. I've been looking for a Unimog project for a while now. Not having much luck finding any in my neck of the woods. I'd like a project vehicle. Not a worthless heap, but not someone elses restoration either. I'm in the Pittsburgh area and I've not stumbled across many. I just thought I'd throw it out there in case anyone on here knows of a Mog for sale withing in driving distance of Western PA. I'd consider several models. I would LOVE if it had a plow with it, but beggars can't be choosers. ;-)

I hope it's not against the rules to post that here. I just thought it would reach it's target it audience best here. If I breached etiquette, I apologies.
 

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a couple round ones
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Firstly let me say welcome.
Next..defiantly breech of etiquette to post any questions in your first post, go to the back of the line (penance..no Mog thoughts for 1 week)
I think that you might have to be a tad more specific with your wants/needs. You might want to consider scratching a plow from your want list, as that is a pretty basic accessory.Most Mogs will have what it takes to use a plow or can be made to.(that being said, keep hydraulics/PTO in mind while looking)
What do you want a mog for???? daily vehicle/camper/snowplow/somting to show to the gals??? I'm sure that you are aware that there are a billion combination of Mogs/Implement any way shape/form.
Again welcome.
 

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1973 416 Doka, 1978 416 Doka, 1980 416 Doka..... Help me, I can't stop buying them!!!
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2,608 Posts
Check ebay or go here Unimog® Exchange
There is a 406 with a plow for only $9k and its in VA. That can't be too far from you. Chances of finding what you are looking for in your own back yard are going to be slim to none when it comes to Unimogs.
 

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1981 Case 406
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375 Posts
Hello and welcome to our club,

I agree with Von, the one on the Exchange is probably not a bad unit. Sure it needs work but its not expensive at 9k. It is a Case unit and parts are always available for these.New and used.

There is another one with a plow in NY, also on the Exchange, but pricey.

If I were you I`d go see the red one first. Be prepared. Know what to look for. Von can probably send you a list of thing you will need to look at upon inspection. If you already have a Unimog buddy, then bring him along too.

Good luck.:thumbsup:

Rolf in Montreal
 

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2000 E430 4matic
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58 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
What do you want a mog for???? daily vehicle/camper/snowplow/somting to show to the gals??? I'm sure that you are aware that there are a billion combination of Mogs/Implement any way shape/form.
Again welcome.

Thanks for the replies guys. I knew I came to the right place! To answer your question, I want it for several things. I want another project. I like to have something going on in the garage. But I also just like Mogs, I love the utilitarian look. So once the project was done, it would also be a driver. I would use it to plow. Maybe to haul my boat around. Probably not a "daily" driver. But a frequent driver.

As for the Mog in VA on the exchange. I did see that one. I contacted the gentleman. He has no kind of title, registration or paperwork of any kind. I realize there are some work arounds for non titled vehicles. But I've also gotten stuck with vehicle that couldn't be titled in the past. I feel the $9000 price on that one is pretty steep for something with no documentation of any kind. Heck it could be stolen for all I know. What do you guys think?
 

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4Sale: 230G, U1200 Ag, 1017A, lots of MB cars, Volvo c303, 416 raildoka, LR D110 TDi
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I wouldn't let the lack of documentation be a big problem, especially on a case truck, as they were not sold with titles most of the time because they were marketed as construction equipment when new by equipment dealers. I have owned 25 mogs over the past few years and only 6 of them had titles or anything else but a bill of sale when I bought them, I had to get new titles on my own for the rest. The only concern that might be valid is if it were stolen, but you could always get the vin and have a police officer run it to make sure there was no record of theft before purchasing. I know there are a couple of guys that have basically offered to help with getting a title on non titled mogs, you might do a search for titles or something of the sort and see what you can come up with. this is one recent thread with some good info in it http://www.benzworld.org/forums/unimog/1564813-404-swiss-1962-unimog-fiberglass-command.html

As far as the price, if that truck runs good, shifts good, has no leaks as stated, and is not a rust bucket, I think that you will probably be hard pressed to find a decent one for much better price, unless you just stumble onto a local truck setting in someones barn or something.

Cheers,
Ben
 

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1978 416.115
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I agree with Ben, don't let the no title prevent you from buying it. Here in Colorado you would need to buy a bond title, so it would cost you a little bit more to register it, but not a lot. I'm sure PA has something similar. I really doubt it's stolen.

The plow alone is worth about $1500, so you're getting a mog for about $7500, and it's not that far away either.
 

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2000 E430 4matic
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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the info. I may have to consider that Mog more seriously. It just seemed like a steep price judging from the condition shown in the pics and the lack of title. But if you guys are all convinced it's a fair price, I may have to look into it deeper.

How much would that Mog weigh? Any idea what the bed length would be?

What else to look for should i make the trip to see it?
 

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1978 416.115
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Thanks for the info. I may have to consider that Mog more seriously. It just seemed like a steep price judging from the condition shown in the pics and the lack of title. But if you guys are all convinced it's a fair price, I may have to look into it deeper.

How much would that Mog weigh? Any idea what the bed length would be?

What else to look for should i make the trip to see it?
Go to your local DMV and ask about the bond title, see how much it would be. Some states it's a flat rate, other states it's based on an appraisal.

My 416 weighs about 8,000lb. So I'm guessing with the plow and dump bed, at least 9500lb, if not more.

The biggest thing to look for (at least my opinion) are portal leaks. I wouldn't worry too much about transmission or engine leaks, if they're small. But portal leaks can be bad news if they run dry and the bearings go out.

Since it's probably a CASE, don't expect to go very fast. Most only go only 45-50mph. Also not sure if you've ever been in a 406, but they are NOISY. I drive my 416 with foam ear plugs, otherwise I'd go deaf.

From one picture, it looks like the right cluster glass is broken. I'm pretty sure VON probably has 4 or 5 of those laying around.

Check the tires too ... good tires will run you about $300-500 EACH if you need to buy some.
 

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2000 E430 4matic
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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks for the advice. I knew there were slow, and I'd guessed they were noisy, I've not been in one yet. I was hoping the noise could be lessened, that was sort of one of the projects I wanted to tackle with a mog. As for the speed, are there gearing changes that can be made easily to get one up to highway speeds? I don't need 100mph. But 65 would be nice.

You bring up an interesting point about it most likely being a "Case" model Mog. I knew they existed, but I'm not very well versed on the differences. What would make a Case version of the Mog more or less desired?
 

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1982 416 Doka
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335 Posts
There are ways to change the gearing, none are cheap.
not sure if you are aware the 406/case mogs are shorter than the 416 and were not ever fitted from Ma benz to go over 45-50.
I have heard they feel unstable at higher speed.
I have a 416L which has a little more length than the standard 416, as acquired it would only do 47mph. I have standard axles but used larger tires and turned up the RPM governor to get to 60mph. with RPM's up to 2850 it is louder as well...
YMMV...
 

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2000 E430 4matic
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Discussion Starter #12
I was aware that the 406 was a shorter wheelbase. My ideal would be a 416, but it's not like I can just trot down to the used Unimog lot and take my pick. ;-) Right now, I'm just trying to learn as much as I can about them so I can be a more informed buyer. This forum has tons of great info!

The search continues...
 

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404 Pritsche, 406 Ag
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I thought about that red Case unit as well. Seems like a decent truck. The Case trucks have a few benefits over the standard 406's. For me, the ROPS is very nice, and the case deck is set up for use with a wide variety of implements. The dump bed on the red unit is bolted to the Case deck, but I didn't find out if it would get in the way of the implement attachment hooks.

For things I don't like about the Case trucks, the 3-way tipper on the non-Case trucks would be more desirable to me (dumping off the sides rather than just the back), but I'm sure either one works fine for most things. Also, the normal case deck (without the dump bed that this guy rigged up) isn't as useful as a solid floor bed with walls if you plan to carry much stuff. To each their own though. I guess I need one of each...

-John
 

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1978 416.115
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You bring up an interesting point about it most likely being a "Case" model Mog. I knew they existed, but I'm not very well versed on the differences. What would make a Case version of the Mog more or less desired?
Depending on what you want to do with it. Personally I don't think they're worth more or less, but others on this board think CASE are worth more, just because of the PTO & hydraulics. But if you're never planning on using them, then it's like having an in-law apartment in a house. If you don't have an in-law, then spending the extra $$$ on the house isn't worth it.

My 416 (U1100L) does almost highway speeds with big 14.5R20 tires. I've never heard of anyone getting a CASE up to highway speeds, but it's probably possible with a transmission change out. Mose CASE are 20 speed, but my 416 is a 2x4 transmission (4 low and 4 high). There's also some 6 speeds out there too I think. It's possible that this one might go fast, but you'd have to ask them. If it doesn't, you might want to see if VON has any transmissions that would fit a case that go faster.

If you want to run implements, CASE are the way to go. They usually have the schmidt plate, front and rear PTO, and front and rear hydraulics. To add all that stuff to a standard 406 would be $$$$.

I personally wanted a U1100L with hoops & tarp and found a good deal on one. Mine has front PTO (no rear) and no hydraulics.
 

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250GD Wolf
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My 416 (U1100L) does almost highway speeds with big 14.5R20 tires. I've never heard of anyone getting a CASE up to highway speeds, but it's probably possible with a transmission change out. Mose CASE are 20 speed, but my 416 is a 2x4 transmission (4 low and 4 high). There's also some 6 speeds out there too I think. It's possible that this one might go fast, but you'd have to ask them. If it doesn't, you might want to see if VON has any transmissions that would fit a case that go faster.

If you want to run implements, CASE are the way to go. They usually have the schmidt plate, front and rear PTO, and front and rear hydraulics. To add all that stuff to a standard 406 would be $$$$.

I personally wanted a U1100L with hoops & tarp and found a good deal on one. Mine has front PTO (no rear) and no hydraulics.
I think the transmission final ratio's are the same are they not? its the ring and pinion that determine the speed difference in the 406/416 Unimogs AFAIK:

Rocky Mountain Moggers - Gears in a Unimog
 

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1978 416.115
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I think the transmission final ratio's are the same are they not? its the ring and pinion that determine the speed difference in the 406/416 Unimogs AFAIK:

Rocky Mountain Moggers - Gears in a Unimog
Between a 2x4 and 6 speed yes, I believe the final gear ratio is the same. 4th gear in high = 6th gear

This website says 20speed is same as 6speed, but has crawler gears.

http://classicunimogs.com/unimog_406_cabrio_faq.html

Really the only way (I know of) to go faster is fast axles and bigger tires.
 

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404 Pritsche, 406 Ag
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The transmission doesn't matter. The 8 speeds has all of the main ratios available (1-4 in low, and 1-4 in high). The 6-speed blocks out what would be 3 and 4 low, and allows you to shift the remaining 6 with one shifter. The top 4 gears are all the same. The 20 speed is just a 6-speed with effectively a 4 speed crawler gearbox in front of it. As an FYI, the red Case that we have been referencing has the 8-speed.

So in the end, a 406 *can* go just as fast as a 416 since they share the same driveline or driveline options. The only problem is that the short wheelbase is not as stable at high speeds, so it is not really advisable to run faster than 50 mph. So if speed is your goal, don't bother looking at any 406 models. If slow is okay, then either the standard or Case variety is okay depending on the options you are interested in.
 

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'88 U-1300L, '70 406, '78 406, '78 416 project, '82 406, '57 404, '65 404, '70 404, '68 Haflinger.
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John and gang,

I also like the non-Case 406's with their tipper bed. The Case deck provides a less-than-usable utility bed for truck type use.

Losing the ROPS is a negative, but there's a big weight difference. That Case deck weighs a lot, and a roll bar can be added.

The non-Case agri-spec 406's do have the 3 point setup in the rear (pair of lift cylinders), hydraulics, and PTOs. Most have a rear-hydraulics lock-out for highway safety (Case does not). I prefer the 3 point on these non-Case trucks because the implement can be much closer to the rear of the truck. The Case setup puts the load 'waaay' back there. Removing a Case 3-point adapter requires a crane but the MB setup can be removed by hand, piece at a time.

The MB method of attachment of the lower arms to the rear axle eliminates the suspension effect, puts the pull low where it needs to be, and reduces stress on the rear torque tube coupling (the axle does the pulling, not the frame). There's even an implement management kit available from MB that lifts the plow/implement if the load increases beyond some preset amount.

If you don't have it, finding a Case 3 point adapter is difficult and expensive.

I went to a tractor scrapper and my local Tractor Supply and bought the parts needed to make the 3-point (old John Deer arms $300) for less than $500.

I like the clear path (not available with Case 3-point) allowing to use the PTO without the scarce centralizer (assuming the offset is tolerable on the implement), and use of the dump bed when the 3 point is in place. For example, a load of gravel can be dumped in front of a contractors box and be spread as dumped. (Sure takes the paint off the box though!!) I could pick up a load of gravel, drive to a remote job, do a preliminary prep of the driveway with the box, then dump and spread the gravel. The local limestone quarry pestered me for years to work for them. They get lots of calls for "just a few tons" of rock for a small driveway but had no way to do that cheaply. Their trucks haul 23 to 24 tons per trip and transport cost is the same for 3 tons!

Thanks for clearing up the transmission issues. Yes, the 406 is just as fast as the 416. With good shocks the 406 is plenty stable at 45-50 mph, their intended top speed, IMHO. If the intention is to manage to get 55-60, then yes, the 406 gets dangerous. I have a couple of 20 speed 406's, and one 2x4 six-speed. I prefer the 2x4 six-speed for most farm chores, seldom using the 20 speeds.

Bob
 

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1970 406 Unimog with 9'2" Boss V-Plow....... 1974 404 Unimog Rock Crawler
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The transmission doesn't matter. The 8 speeds has all of the main ratios available (1-4 in low, and 1-4 in high). The 6-speed blocks out what would be 3 and 4 low, and allows you to shift the remaining 6 with one shifter. The top 4 gears are all the same. The 20 speed is just a 6-speed with effectively a 4 speed crawler gearbox in front of it. As an FYI, the red Case that we have been referencing has the 8-speed.
Well said. The following shift diagram for the 20 Speed showing all the available gear ratios (shown as top speed in MPH) in the proper shifting sequence tells the story very well.

What I wonder is, how many gear ratios would be available if an 8 speed (2x4) tranny is mated to a cascade box?
 

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1987 416 Doka
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"Really the only way (I know of) to go faster is fast axles and bigger tires."

- You can also change out the ring and pinons... If gearing is what concerns you, Roberto (Multismog on this forum) is extremely knowledgeable on the whole subject and can get you the parts too.

I bought and installed high speed hub gears from him, with Central Tire Inflation too...
 
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