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Discussion Starter #1
Yep it's everywhere! What are we going to do? Where's the bottom? We have all seen the prices of overinflated Mogs 3-4 years ago. And now those who bought in those times are seeing there investment drop to hell! Reailty check...Mog's are not good investments. We'd like to think there's gold in the rails of our Mercedes 4x4, 6x6 trucks but the truth is they are made out of aluminum, steel and plastic....If America would truly let free market rain then we'd have alot more Mogs over here but the big truck manufacturers are too busy protecting CYA and won't allow Mercedes incredible technology in here. So we see them partner with Freightliner, Sterling, Detroit Diesel.... but Not Actros/MB.

I know of a 1300-very nice one I may add sell for 10K less than what it should have sold for....why...don't know that's between the buyer and seller. So when I see people freaking out over the prices of Mogs falling especially 404's...I see turkey...I see egg...I see what cup of soup did he swallow today???? Reality is...Mog's from U5000's to U500, 400, 300, U2450, U2150, U1750, 1700, All L37 &38's, U1550, U1500, 1400, 1300, 1250, 1200, 1000, U900, 416's, 417, 419's(SEE), 421's, 416, 416L, 406, 404.0, 404...and so on all have taken a huge hit. Who really cares? So for those who like to breed fear, and OH NO's...Take a chill pilllllll and jump in your mog and go drive it and enjoy it....if you don't have gas money...at least keep it washed, sit in it, take pictures of yourself and dream...and if you just cant do that but need some action...pull it to the top of a hill...jump in and .....YeeeeHaaaa!
 

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mogless, except for my friends MB4-94. And a bunch of other diesel junk.
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Charles....

I'll take some of whatever your drinking/smoking tonight :)

-Trev
Though I quit drinking, and don't smoke, I'm with Trevor on this one. The reason for all of this is that the buyers don't have enough money, and the sellers NEED the money. The stuff that doesn't sell is owned by people that are either way stubborn, but are more likely very smart and have a lot of bank. Some day I'll be one of them.
 

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Discussion Starter #5 (Edited)
I'm not into the anti-optimism that seems to fall in the 404 camp or in general some Mog camps. I'm for the people who buy Mogs as a Toy, a Machine, a true real 4x4 for work or their cities use. A Mercedes unique machine that does a whole lot more for people than they think... especially when all there thinking is..."The bottom has dropped out"....heck... what was I thinking when I bought that....Look where the market is now...I could have bought two... and on and on it goes....if that's what truly motivated you to buy a mog...Sell it! Get out! If that was my motivation... I never would have bought one. Infact of the Several thousands of dollars invested in my 404 over and above it's value and the several thousand still yet to be invested....and the several around the world who have done the same thing... and have fixed up their Mogs to "TOP NOTCH" in their AREA these are the true Mognonium's. A unimog is what you want it to be to you...If you bought it as just an investment...well I think you'll be pretty sad and seems pretty short sighted in the long run. "More than anything be true to yourself, your family. For many of you this isn't your concern ...but for some...hey... whether in the now or in the future a Mog or several sit in your driveway or you only fair to see one occasionaly on the road with a Big happy man/woman smiling as they go...Smile...Your living, breathing and know that you've just seen something unique...and that urge jumps inside of you this time....and says...I want one....That was me 13 years ago I believe!

One more thing...If you just can't seem to sleep at night...Contact your local governement and tell them you have just opened a new business and offer mowing, street sweeping, sign cleaning, snow removal services, heavy equipment hauling and removal of debris ect...And it can save them alot of money! Better yet Get them to buy you 2 trucks....1-U500 and 1 U5000...1 for you and your wife as you have dates in the Mog and fight over which side of the road you want to drive from and the other one is for weekend fun as you take the Mayor out and show him why Mogs are and do what they do so much better than any other chassis set-up! Now you have true MOGNONIUM!
 

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Unimog U421.140, cabrio and U407.100
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.... And now those who bought in those times are seeing there investment drop to hell!.. and ....Mog's from U5000's to U500, 400, 300, U2450, U2150, U1750, 1700, All L37 &38's, U1550, U1500, 1400, 1300, 1250, 1200, 1000, U900, 416's, 417, 419's(SEE), 421's, 416, 416L, 406, 404.0, 404...
Two comments....
I do not see how a MOG could be an "Investment":)
and Two I own a 421 cabrio so I do not have competition sooooo.... my "Investment" is safe:D
 

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'78 Mog 416.141 DoKa
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The reason for all of this is that the buyers don't have enough money, and the sellers NEED the money. The stuff that doesn't sell is owned by people that are either way stubborn, but are more likely very smart and have a lot of bank. Some day I'll be one of them.
The sales value of my home continues to drop every month for the same reason. Too many desperate sellers taking low-ball prices. Soon that supply will run out and prices will rise. Mogs and other toys are the same way - it's an economic cycle. Like always, those with money left at the bottom of the cycle are well positioned to buy good stuff at discount prices :)

Thank God I don't live in LAS with THEIR housing market - ugh.

Frankly, I don't really care WHAT my Mog is worth. I'm intelligent enough to have not bought it as an investment with money I may or may not have really had. And, I never plan to get rid of it, so it could be "worthless" to the market and it wouldn't bother me. Hell - Mogs being worthless would increase the cheap used market and I could line 'em up behind the shop as donors.
 

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'88 U-1300L, '70 406, '78 406, '78 416 project, '82 406, '57 404, '65 404, '70 404, '68 Haflinger.
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Ditto the comments about the market being soft. BUT, the monetary hit only comes if you have to sell right now. That applies to lots of stuff people have "invested" in. Real estate has been considered a top "investment" forever, but look at what's happening to real estate. Property around here is going for half what it was just a few years ago. Wait for the wailing when the gold bubble bursts and price drops by 75%. All it takes is for one big gold owner to sell out for 'profit taking'.

Jump ahead a few years and the mog prices will be back (and not just because the dollar will be worthless!!). So many 404 mogs are being trashed by owners that a decent, near original, Unimog will grow in value in a few years, IMHO. If "investment" in Unimogs is such a bad deal, then why are used Unimog parts still so outrageously high? (of course new parts are high because of exchange rates.) Apparently a Unimog is worth much more as parts than as a whole (saying the market is still alive), but of course that run ends when the last mog is cannibalized for parts LOL.

If your Unimog can still do the job it was bought for, work or play, then you have not lost 'money'. Just don't panic and sell it.

[edit: Mogasaurus and I were typing at the same time. I was looking over his shoulder :) ]
Bob
 

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If you don’t plan on selling “now” or in the next year or two what’s the problem?

Its near xmas, in a time of austerity that most of us will have known was coming, most of us have been on this forum for a few years and probably have owned mogs in various forms long before we joined the forum and we don’t have any intention of leaving “mog ownership” and if your lucky enough to have disposable income &/or your looking long term the dip in sales price is a boon because you can pick up spares mogs at the right price rather than being more/prohibitly expensive.

If you own something like a 404 or 4#6 and you derive enjoyment from recreational use then what is the problem with chucking $5k+ over its base value just to get what “YOU” want given just a set of XM47/AC70G and perhaps some wheels and a winch would put pay to most of that “$5K+” yet how much would it cost to give your North American” pickup/4x4 SUV difflocks, the same under axel clearance, hydraulic systems payload capacity and coil springs yet alone a PTO system or the ability to go out and power/mount implements?

For us hear in the UK things have gone a little bit weird, the £ is weak agenised the € so mogs in Europe cost a lot more than 3 years ago so its prohibitly expensive to import paying in euros vs. what it was, that has had the net effect of increasing the value of mogs already hear BUT on the other hand austerity is stopping people buying mogs and making do with what they have given most hear are used for work there for the price doesn’t know which way to go because its neither a buyers or sellers market given that the actual cost of “importing” excluding currency exchange rates is peanuts.

Within the next month I will be re-cabing my mog despite its hours which will cost ~£6500 with taxes which will add value to it though not by the full £6.5K, however as I don’t ever intend selling it and will keep running it until its deemed suitable for parting out by which time I intend to also have a u2100 or u2150 to take its place which may need a cab its self.
 

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250GD Wolf
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If you own something like a 404 or 4#6 and you derive enjoyment from recreational use then what is the problem with chucking $5k+ over its base value just to get what “YOU” want given just a set of XM47/AC70G and perhaps some wheels and a winch would put pay to most of that “$5K+” yet how much would it cost to give your North American” pickup/4x4 SUV difflocks, the same under axel clearance, hydraulic systems payload capacity and coil springs yet alone a PTO system or the ability to go out and power/mount implements?
Well said, I like that line of thinking. :thumbsup:
 

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1987 416 Doka
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I think it is always the issue of supply and demand. There are a lot of 404's and although some are very modified and beautiful rock crawlers, they fit in a niche market with limited demand.

All platforms of Doka's are rare and much more sought after, usually bringing higher sale prices, but in the end, when the economy is down, so is the demand.

As pointed out above, if you are "needing" to sell, you will not get as good of a price due to less demand and general, less disposable income.

No big deal, just maintain it and the market will come back, but if not it will be sought after as a tractor to plow the landscaping so people can raise crops to feed their family!
 

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'76 1300L,HE351CW,H15P Winches,Konis,Hydraulics,All Gears,10mm Plungers,Aftercooler,Lots of Littles
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The number of people who NEED a Unimog in the US is low.

The number of people buying only what they NEED is high.

Similarly, the number of people NEEDing to sell their Unimog is high.

Therefore, demand has shifted down and supply has shifted up. The economic changes in the past 2 years and large enough that the curve itsself has moved. This is a recipe for major changes in price.

Econ 101.

Charles (the sober one...)
 

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The monetary values are only declining relative the a larger market crisis. Everything is losing its value so to speak. I choose to look at it like Unimog are worth more than ever now, while the value of actual houses plummet, unimogs hold their ground.

This thread is bad publicity for universal motor tools. (I stress the word tool). Now middle class small business can own and use them, instead of just public works, or govt. Keep it all in perspective, markets go up and down, and always will. Buckle up.

ACUF
 

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Discussion Starter #15
This thread is bad publicity for Universal motor tools? HMMM

The monetary values are only declining relative the a larger market crisis. Everything is losing its value so to speak. I choose to look at it like Unimog are worth more than ever now, while the value of actual houses plummet, unimogs hold their ground.

This thread is bad publicity for universal motor tools. (I stress the word tool). Now middle class small business can own and use them, instead of just public works, or govt. Keep it all in perspective, markets go up and down, and always will. Buckle up.

ACUF
Please explain how a person calling someones bluff is bad publicity. As a 404 owner...I figured in whole/bigger perspective that many peoples perspective is limited or only looked through their perspective....Take a step back and look at everything....Everyone is getting hammered period but as many have stated...it's life cycles. I didn't buy my Mog as an investment. Some may have and at the heigth of "Mognonium".....Remember 404's were selling for $20K. I bought my Mog as a vehicle/tool that could be used in my work at the time. I bought it because I wanted one and had been dreaming about ownership for years prior...I don't mind my Mog being out of service for 3+ years now doing restoration work on the Mog....Soon it will be up and running again....I just get tired of hearing people type cast 404 Mogs as the Poor man Porsche/Volkswagon....But when you look at the bigger picture everybody is/has been hammered. The only thing I haven't seen change is the prices of New OEM parts, NOS parts ect. Infact they continue going up. Way to go Scott(your the smart one) I'm thankful though we have a source to get parts but they are still expensive whether you own a 404, 406, 416, 1300 ect. I was really hoping to get everybody to see a bigger perspective not just a monocular microscopic sigular view of their issue and how it affects them. Again to me...My mog to me is "Priceless" and worth as much as someone who owns a U5000.
 

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85' U1300L Holset Turbo VA A/C, 66' Propane 404.1 rock mog, 1975 416 Doka, G500, Volvo C303
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When were 404's sell g for 20k? I must have missed that.
 

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Hi

Personally, my camper Mog is a toy. I'm damn lucky to be in the position to have such a big and lovely toy, and to currently be taking some time off to enjoy it. She's cost me a fair bit to date, but an equivilent new Euro campervan would have been similar ££ and not quite have ticked so many boxes ;)

I'm sure I'll lose out if the sad day ever comes that I must sell.

But, since it has nothing to do with any business, and is purely for fun, I can see the future in the UK being a little difficult. I can't currently take it into London for instance. So no-one can own one (unless currently Euro 3, and I think next year Euro 4), or use one for work within the Low Emissions Zone without paying £200 per day! Cambridge and many other towns are talking about doing the same, in the name of the Environment. Diesel is going up and up. The tax to keep her on the road is currently cheap, but the tax for someting like a Range Rover becoming slightly ridiculous, how long will that take to spread to my little Mog?

Owning a Mog for me is a privilege which the Government seems to be aiming to remove. The only question is when.

Then what'll it be worth? :(

Canada here I come!!!!


Maybe.



Jason
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Mognonious!

Hi

Personally, my camper Mog is a toy. I'm damn lucky to be in the position to have such a big and lovely toy, and to currently be taking some time off to enjoy it. She's cost me a fair bit to date, but an equivilent new Euro campervan would have been similar ££ and not quite have ticked so many boxes ;)

I'm sure I'll lose out if the sad day ever comes that I must sell.

But, since it has nothing to do with any business, and is purely for fun, I can see the future in the UK being a little difficult. I can't currently take it into London for instance. So no-one can own one (unless currently Euro 3, and I think next year Euro 4), or use one for work within the Low Emissions Zone without paying £200 per day! Cambridge and many other towns are talking about doing the same, in the name of the Environment. Diesel is going up and up. The tax to keep her on the road is currently cheap, but the tax for someting like a Range Rover becoming slightly ridiculous, how long will that take to spread to my little Mog?

Owning a Mog for me is a privilege which the Government seems to be aiming to remove. The only question is when.

Then what'll it be worth? :(

Canada here I come!!!!


Maybe.



Jason
Jason you bring up many good points. Not to get political but remember as much as the government and the many people who believe that you work for the government...No they work for you. A day is coming hopefully soon when we can deport these crazy bastards. Taxing people does not release the creative juices/free market.

And Doka TD...You don't remember? There was a 404/silver one that sold in La area on EBAY for 20K+. Everybody on the Exchange here was amazed...up in fists you could say....The 404 owners where proud that day....Many where in disbelief since it was a really nice silver spray over paint job. I hope the Mog owner who bought is enjoying it as much as he did the day he plopped down $20K.

Jason...One of the points that you brought up was this...Mog's in general can't be compared to any other vehicles....But if we were to compare Mogs would deffinitely have their strong points where they totally dominate the competition...hands down no question asked. There isn't too many vehicles outhere that can even compete...size, weight, off-roadability, uniquness ect. Take a modern truck today in the same class above and it fails miserably in off-roading...but on the road they excell very well. People around here drive 60-70 mph all day long...so in this catagory Mog's don't win. Fuel mileage...Modern trucks win in this area too but not by much as a Chevy 4500series truck doesn't do much better...diesel does better. Torque/h.p....well on the road a Chevy 4500 would far outclass a Mog....But how well would it do off-road...How does it manage it's power to the ground/get it to the ground? On flat dirt/gravel surfaces...light mud....OK. Put in some rocks, off cambered trails, open diffs and the K4500 falls flat...You'd be pulling it out with the Mog. Sure anybody can drag your K4500 over any rock or up any trail but will it look like a 4500 after you get done. So Mog's rule offroad as well as being a vehicle that can manage/do many tasks on one chassis. K4500 can pull/tow heavy loads but can you hook a big heavy plow to them...A blower, Hook a loader to the front, Mow the side of a road, be used in the fields and still go to the store I'd say not...So there are many reasons why Mogs in general are better suited for purposeful offroad jobs as well as civilian municipality jobs where it would take 6 trucks to do what 1 Mog could do. So I'd say that puts Mogs in a good spot. It also puts a K4500 in a good spot as I would use it to tow my Mog/toy/offroading vehicle to the next Mogfest experience.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
So it's been a little over a year and 1/2 now since the original article...

The sales value of my home continues to drop every month for the same reason. Too many desperate sellers taking low-ball prices. Soon that supply will run out and prices will rise. Mogs and other toys are the same way - it's an economic cycle. Like always, those with money left at the bottom of the cycle are well positioned to buy good stuff at discount prices :)

Thank God I don't live in LAS with THEIR housing market - ugh.

Frankly, I don't really care WHAT my Mog is worth. I'm intelligent enough to have not bought it as an investment with money I may or may not have really had. And, I never plan to get rid of it, so it could be "worthless" to the market and it wouldn't bother me. Hell - Mogs being worthless would increase the cheap used market and I could line 'em up behind the shop as donors.

So how is the Market now?
 

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4Sale: 230G, U1200 Ag, 1017A, lots of MB cars, Volvo c303, 416 raildoka, LR D110 TDi
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I know of a lot of Square cab trucks that have been sold recently at pretty large numbers. I know the square cab doka market has gone from close to non existent (remember how long Truktor's Doka was on the market?) to having at least three at much larger numbers than the green truck be put up for sale and sold within days of their listings in the last few months. Also the other square cab stuff has been moving quick. I'm down to two mogs right now, and at times in the last few years I have had as many as 12. The 406's in decent shape have been moving pretty quickly in the mid teens lately, and some super nice ones at prices in the 30's. 416's have also been moving in the mid teens, and doka's for quite a bit more. I think the only two markets that aren't that good are the 404's and the SEE tractors.

Cheers,
Ben
 
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