Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 51 Posts

·
Registered
2000 E430 Sport
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Is it just me, or is seemingly heavy amounts of brake dust a common place on our cars? I've owned my E430 for close to a year now, and I've noticed that my front wheels are nearly black just a couple or so weeks after a good cleaning. The rears are fine. They soil at about one fifth the rate of the fronts. What's the deal wit dat?!?
 

·
Registered
1994 E320 Wagon,1999 E320 Wagon,2000 E 320 Wagon, MGB Track/Rally, ,1988 300E ,more....
Joined
·
6,019 Posts
The front

brakes last a lot less miles also,that is why the greater pad dust.
When you do the brakes next time use Akebono pads,tirerack sells them.
Great braking and wear rate plus a whole big reduction in dust.
How do your rotors look?If smooth you can get another run out of them if grooved replace them with oem rotors from
Auto Parts at AutohausAZ - OEM Auto Parts - Discount Replacement Parts, Resources and Car Care Tips
ohlord:bowdown:
follow the bedding in procedure provided with the akebono pads the brakes will perform better and last even longer.
 

·
Registered
2000 MB
Joined
·
803 Posts
Excessive (front) brake dust

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it just me, or is seemingly heavy amounts of brake dust a common place on our cars? I've owned my E430 for close to a year now, and I've noticed that my front wheels are nearly black just a couple or so weeks after a good cleaning. The rears are fine. They soil at about one fifth the rate of the fronts. What's the deal wit dat?!?
Same here. My neighbours think I am crazy for being too tidy with the car. The wheels,
. . . . they are really a chore. Every other day, they see me wiping off all 4 wheels.
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
While the ceramic pads are good, they are also hard and will wear out rotors more quickly. Those are pretty inexpensive, but if you're looking for a good middle ground the Axxis Deluxe Plus pads are significantly cheaper (barely more than stock if you shop online) and provide excellent results cold, wet or hot. Less dust and similar rotor wear. Others tout the Porterfeld and EBC pads; this issue is not limited to the 210, so search across all forums and you'll see the variety of options and results.

And speaking of rotors, don't just go by how they "look". If they're grooved, you definitely want to replace them (or if you are getting the familiar "pulsing pedal"). However, just because they are smooth does not mean they are safe to use. Put a micrometer on them and make sure they are not close to minimums (stamped in the perimeter of the rotor itself). If they are close or below then replace them. Brakes save you and others from damage or disaster, so this is not a place to take a chance.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 

·
Registered
2000 E430 Sport
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Axxis Deluxe Plus pads
Thanks. Got a good online source for these? My car just gave me a "Brake Lining Wear" warning today. So, its time. I may go ahead and paint the calipers while in there. Anyone have a picture of a silver E430 with red or black calipers and stock wheels??
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Thanks. Got a good online source for these? My car just gave me a Brake Lining Wear warning today. So, its time. I may go ahead and paint the calipers while in there. Anyone have a picture of a silver E430 with red or black calipers and stock wheels??
Hey, booker. Google for lots of places as prices vary, but I have in the past seen the best prices at Import Replacement Parts. You will need sensors too... and be sure to measure your rotors, that is really important. You should be okay for a couple thousand miles depending on how and where you drive.

I will paint mine at some point but was thinking of black or blue as IMHO red is just a bit too racy looking for the non-AMG 210.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 

·
Registered
2000 E430 Sport
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hey, booker. Google for lots of places as prices vary, but I have in the past seen the best prices at Import Replacement Parts. You will need sensors too... and be sure to measure your rotors, that is really important. You should be okay for a couple thousand miles depending on how and where you drive.

I will paint mine at some point but was thinking of black or blue as IMHO red is just a bit too racy looking for the non-AMG 210.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
Thanks, man. And you're right on the calipers. I got to thinking about it and decided to go black. Either that or slap a bunch of "AMG" badges all over the car and maybe a "Brabus" on the trunk lid,....along with a wing. ;)

I checked eBay for the pads and it looks like there's plenty of Power sellers dealing in them. Not sure if all include sensors or not, so I'll double check. The they (sensors) typically come packaged in with the pads, or will I need to purchase seperately?

As mentioned, the warning just popped up. Good to know that Mercedes built in plenty of time (if I'm good for another 1000+ miles). But I'm thinking about taking a cross-country road trip in July, so I'd best get them swapped out anyway.
 

·
Registered
2000 E430 Sport
Joined
·
93 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Well, I just got back from my shop. (Had to go in b/c the car wasn't blowing cold air - was down to .5 lbs of freon.) And my mech put the fear of God into me about sticking with OEM pads. Seems silly to me, but he's a die-hard OEM guy. I'm talking to him while standing next to my black wheels - that were just cleaned Saturday.

One thing, the OEM's are quiet. Anyone every report squealing with the Axxis or Porterfields?
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Well, I just got back from my shop. (Had to go in b/c the car wasn't blowing cold air - was down to .5 lbs of freon.) And my mech put the fear of God into me about sticking with OEM pads. Seems silly to me, but he's a die-hard OEM guy. I'm talking to him while standing next to my black wheels - that were just cleaned Saturday.

One thing, the OEM's are quiet. Anyone every report squealing with the Axxis or Porterfields?
I haven't had any noise with the Axxis pads but I did use MB paste on them.

If your mechanic is like the guy on Seinfeld that stole Jerry's car (hey, it was just a Saab) then you'd better do as he says. Otherwise, you get to make the choice. That said, unless you're a track guy, the only real reason to change from OEM pads is to reduce brake dust. MB brakes are very well engineered, so you're not going to be making any real performance improvements by selecting aftermarket pads.

But brake dust is the predominant reason people go to aftermarket pads. There were two reasons I went with Axxis, cost and longevity (of all components, not just pads), otherwise I'd probably have gone with the Akebonos (I had also changed out my rotors to drilled ones -- purely for the aesthetics -- and didn't want to wear them out faster).

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg
 

·
Registered
1994 E320 Wagon,1999 E320 Wagon,2000 E 320 Wagon, MGB Track/Rally, ,1988 300E ,more....
Joined
·
6,019 Posts
Akebonos

and oem rotors or spend the extra $50 each and ship off the rotors for for cryo treatment and the rotors and pads will outlast the car.
ohlord:bowdown:
 

·
Premium Member
2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
Joined
·
17,193 Posts
Cryo

and oem rotors or spend the extra $50 each and ship off the rotors for for cryo treatment and the rotors and pads will outlast the car. ohlord:bowdown:
Hey ohlord,

I know "cryo" normally refers to a freezing process but this is the 1st time I've seen it applied to brake rotors. Can you please provide us with a few specifics?
 

·
Registered
1994 E320 Wagon,1999 E320 Wagon,2000 E 320 Wagon, MGB Track/Rally, ,1988 300E ,more....
Joined
·
6,019 Posts
Racing

engine builders have been using it for several years on rods,cams,pistons etc.
Suspension and chassis and brake race builders caught on. Sort of a heat treatment to temper parts on the minus side of the temp scale.
-300f for a few days and then brought up to ambient temp slowly.
Forms a more uniform crystalline structure in the metals molecules and makes them stronger and harder.In race use some builders are getting 3 times the wear life compared to untreated parts.
ohlord:bowdown:
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
There's always a trade-off of hardness vs. longevity (no, no, don't go there) so I'm just curious, any graph on how much the super-hard rotors reduce braking performance over a range of temperatures?
 

·
Registered
1994 E320 Wagon,1999 E320 Wagon,2000 E 320 Wagon, MGB Track/Rally, ,1988 300E ,more....
Joined
·
6,019 Posts
Note

bracketed saves me typing:thumbsup:
Cryogenics 101

Deep cryogenic treating is a one-time, homogenous process that permanently and dramatically improves the performance and useful life of metals in everything from brake rotors and performance engines to machine tools and gun barrels. Using a proprietary computer-controlled process, the metal is cooled slowly to deep cryogenic temperatures (-300°F), and slowly returned to room temperature, then heat-tempered as the final step. Computer technology allows the regulation of temperatures to 1 degree, accurately manipulating the Cryo treatment in accordance with the mass of the part it is being applied to.

Although not apparent to the naked eye, the improvements to the metal are significant. Deep cryogenic processing creates dramatic increases in abrasive wear resistance and durability. The increases in tensile strength, toughness and stability couple with the release of internal residual stresses.

How the Process Works

Deep cryogenic processing permanently refines the grain structure of metals at the atomic level. This creates metallurgically improved and stabilized rotors that have a more dense, smoother structure.

( As a result, you reduce heat and wear on brake rotors and pads.)

Applications of Cryogenic Processing

Brake rotors, performance engines, transmissions, gun barrels, cutting and machine tools, stabilizing ferrous and non-ferrous metals.

Sothe net effect is longer life,increased performance for not that much more money.
and never get them drilled,slotted is fine,dimpled is great,drilling is a big no no on most mb rotors.
:bowdown:
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
So who is up for a before-and-after test for performance: same pads, just new rotors that have been cryo-treated?

Disc brakes basically work by a complex process involving the transfer of material between the pad and the pad-impregnated surface of a rotor (resulting from the bedding-in process) and heat typically improves this bonding process until a limit is reached. (Thus horrible performance with new pads and new rotors until the bedding-in process is complete.)

So deductive logic suggests that if you reduce the heat (generated by friction) and material transfer, performance will suffer. This isn't like a camshaft that the smoother and harder the surface is, the better, since the cams are supposed to be separated by a film of oil from the bearing surfaces and lifters. Pads must contact rotors in order to function.

After all, if you had stunningly-and-equally-hard rotors and pads (say made from diamonds) they would last forever ... but it would take you a great distance to stop from 60 mph.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
Joined
·
17,193 Posts
Thanks again ohlord. Now this makes me wonder if the high performance automobile manufacturers (aka Lambourghini and the like) cryo any of their parts? I'm not asking you to do my legwork, just curious.

I think I do know that the SLR is equipped with ceramic rotors and probably darn good brake pads to match. And if I remember correctly, the ceramics dissipate heat more effectively but I don't know how hard they are compared to conventional rotors.
 

·
Registered
'01-E320 & 02-ST2
Joined
·
31,633 Posts
Thanks again ohlord. Now this makes me wonder if the high performance automobile manufacturers (aka Lambourghini and the like) cryo any of their parts? I'm not asking you to do my legwork, just curious.

I think I do know that the SLR is equipped with ceramic rotors and probably darn good brake pads to match.
If you're referring to the megabuck McLaren flavor of the SLR, the rotors are actually carbon-fiber reinforced ceramic, and the set costs pretty much the same as a new E class: $52,000 ($13,000 each). When they came out Autobahn Motors had one on display (no touching allowed): nice car, but really. I didn't think to ask how much the pads were. :)

If you want to hear ugly noises and see these massive brakes, check out this vid:
YouTube - Mc Laren SLR Front Brake Failure
and then see what happens when they get really hot:
YouTube - McLaren SLR Brakes
 

·
Premium Member
2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
Joined
·
17,193 Posts
So who is up for a before-and-after test for performance: same pads, just new rotors that have been cryo-treated?
Not me personally, but I'd be curious about those respective stopping distances under various conditions, at least wet and dry.

I'm one of the owners who prefer OEM pads/rotors. IMHO, Mercedes have incredible brakes and I'm willing to live with the brake dust. As I've said before, if we wash our wheels (I also use a spray-on wheel cleaner) regularly, brake dust is just not that serious a problem.
 

·
Premium Member
2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
Joined
·
17,193 Posts
If you're referring to the megabuck McLaren flavor of the SLR, the rotors are actually carbon-fiber reinforced ceramic, and the set costs pretty much the same as a new E class: $52,000 ($13,000 each). When they came out Autobahn Motors had one on display (no touching allowed): nice car, but really. I didn't think to ask how much the pads were. :)
Holy Moly! Yes Greg, that's the vehicle to which I referred. The little dealer in Ashland KY had one too with the same "no touch" sign on it. I think that puppy's sticker was over $450,000...

Thanks for the links, gonna check those out right now. ;)
 
1 - 20 of 51 Posts
Top