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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
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While European reliability had been improving, momentum seems to have stalled. All Porsche and Volvo models are rated average or better. But Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are among the worst automakers overall.

Europe's bumpy road

BMW had a bad year, with five of 11 models now scoring below average. Although the BMW M3 topped the sporty cars category, the 1, 3, and 5 Series models with the 3.0-liter, turbocharged engine had high problem rates related to the fuel system, among other issues.

Mercedes-Benz had the least reliable vehicles in three categories. Six of its 13 models were below average, and the GLK SUV was far below average this year. The redesigned E350 sedan was above average, but the new E-Class coupe, a wholly different car, was a disappointment.

Almost three-quarters of the Audi models we analyzed were below average. Volkswagen did better, with its Golf (formerly Rabbit) doing very well and the various Jetta models doing average or better.

Ford continues to be the most reliable American automaker. Ninety percent of Fords, including Lincoln models, have at least average reliability.
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Taken from:
Consumer Reports? Most Reliable Cars- Yahoo! Autos Article Page


No wonder I keep hearing the siren call of a Lincoln Town Car..lol.
 

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1990 mercedes 500 se lorinser
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If its not japanese it wont score well consumer reports is run by people who think a prius is a cool car there not car people like me and everybody else on benzworld. These are the same people who buy a toyota and never change the oil. Because they think its a toyota they dont have to then at 75000 they need a engine i never believe anything consumer reportsp writes i work for a volvo specialist. We work on more toyotas than volvos. These cars toyotas are absolute garbage power steering leaks. Carbon build up cloged pcv systems hub bearings check engine lights oil leaks noisey top ends but consumer reports never reports anything negative about toyota and were is the build quality like i said before garbage the american auto makers build better cars thanks for letting me vent
 

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Euro 1985 500SEL
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
If its not japanese it wont score well consumer reports is run by people who think a prius is a cool car there not car people like me and everybody else on benzworld. These are the same people who buy a toyota and never change the oil. Because they think its a toyota they dont have to then at 75000 they need a engine i never believe anything consumer reportsp writes i work for a volvo specialist. We work on more toyotas than volvos. These cars toyotas are absolute garbage power steering leaks. Carbon build up cloged pcv systems hub bearings check engine lights oil leaks noisey top ends but consumer reports never reports anything negative about toyota and were is the build quality like i said before garbage the american auto makers build better cars thanks for letting me vent
The thing is, CR isn't saying this based on what they did, it is based on car owners. So they are not influencing these reports. Here is their official explanation:

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Our reliability survey

Our data are based on an annual survey of subscribers to Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org and are not derived from road tests. A model needs at least 100 responses per model year for us to score it.

From the survey, we create a reliability history for each model over the course of 10 years, 2001 to 2010. We use the data, in part, to forecast how well the 2011 models will hold up. We might predict reliability for a newly redesigned model, but only if previous versions had outstanding reliability.
***

As I've said before, 99% of my friends who drive Jap cars and actually take care of them and do the recommended services never complain or have the bills I or my friends have driving Euro vehicles -my friends who have Lexus' are always throwing this in my face.. *bastards*..lol. But of course that's common knowledge by now. However I do think the W126 has a much better repair record compared to these newer MB that are, as my MB mechanic puts it, "computers on wheels". Which is why he hates working on them.
 

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'84 500 SEC Euro 040 black Lorinser 2005 sl500
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Just got rid of a top of the line for the model, 3 year old Ford because of it's crappy build quality and problems with reliability (electric 3rd row seat broke almost immediately, radiator crapped out the first year with a 4 week back-order date for OEM replacement since they had to replace so many, transmission lock out would not release-recalled and repaired twice for the same problem, and several other less important problems that needed attention). Still ran on the hot side for the last 2 years but was told to live with it since it wasn't doing any damage. Transmission started up and downshifting on it's own at highway cruising speeds the last two years but again told there was not a bad enough issue to warrant a replacement. I expected more for for the price that was paid for it. Maybe they will do better this year in the real world.

I purchased 3 big ticket items on recommendation by Consumer Reports over the last 3 years (2 of them last year, one was the Ford 3 years ago). The washer dryer they recommended didn't even last 6 months. The washer has so many complaints that GE had to pull it from their line even though it was rated 2nd best out of 8 sets by Consumer Reports. The 42 inch TV rated a best buy from Consumer Reports lasted a whopping 8 months.

No more Consumer Reports for me. I have had much better luck looking up actual consumer reviews on the web and going off real peoples recommendations than rely on CR. Oh, and never another Ford for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Just got rid of a top of the line for the model, 3 year old Ford because of it's crappy build quality and problems with reliability (electric 3rd row seat broke almost immediately, radiator crapped out the first year with a 4 week back-order date for OEM replacement since they had to replace so many, transmission lock out would not release-recalled and repaired twice for the same problem, and several other less important problems that needed attention). Still ran on the hot side for the last 2 years but was told to live with it since it wasn't doing any damage. Transmission started up and downshifting on it's own at highway cruising speeds the last two years but again told there was not a bad enough issue to warrant a replacement. I expected more for for the price that was paid for it. Maybe they will do better this year in the real world.
What Ford vehicle was this? I've always had great luck with Ford, from my Lincoln all the way to my pickup. But of course they can't always get it right, luckily your repairs fell within their warranty period.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Thats ok id rather have high repair bills than look like duface driving a lexus
You do realize most people in the automotive biz consider the Lexus LS the finest made vehicle in the world, right? And I'm not talking about appointments or wood or leather or artistry such as on a RR..just the mechanics and reliability. It's certainly not the prettiest, but you can't really beat their quality on the whole or knock them for their engineering. Heck, a great portion of their vehicles are made by computer controlled machines, which explains the higher quality due to less human error.

Still...my W126 looks a million times better..or at least that's what I tell myself when I pay another huge repair bill and my buds in their Lexus' drive by laughing..lol. =)
 

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Explorer Limited. Maybe it is just their truck line, but none of my extended family but one will ever buy a Ford. One cousin buys 4 pickups every 2 years for an electrical company in Oklahoma. After giving Ford a shot twice in the last 6 years, he will only buy GM for his company and for his wife. Both brothers did the Ford truck thing, one bought 2 and one bought one Ford F-250's over the past 3 years...both now drive GM.

The one exception is my great aunt who will only buy Ford (new f-150 every 2 years which she loves and drives daily and trades in at 40,000 miles and a Lincoln Town Car every 2 years which she rarely drives and trades in with under 15,000 miles...we call her the crazy aunt...jk)

I liked the service I got from the local Ford dealer but could not believe how FoMoCo treated both myself and the dealer when it came to replacing the radiator. Put up a good fight to just fix the plastic instead of total radiator replacement. Wouldn't fix the Lockout until the recall was issued and blamed improper usage for the 3rd row seat being no-op. Another 3 week fight before they agreed that it was actually broken. What a joke. Plus the wheel well arches would pop away from the bumperarches line every month or so.

I will stick with my Mercedes as my daily driver. Gives me less problems than anything new I buy. When something goes wrong, I can usually fix it and know that I will want to keep it instead of dumping it prior to the warranty running out. No car payments, no worries about warranty work and having to get rid of the car, easy to work on, great on insurance and very dependable.
 

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I met a guy that had a Ford Explorer. After replacing all sorts of things including the transmission, the starter went out. He gave it away for free rather than spend another dime on it. He just wanted it off the property.

A friend has an F150. 800 miles from home it decided to blow a spark plug.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Wow...sorry to hear Ford gave you such a headache. To be perfectly honest buying any car is a crap shoot..you just never know what you will end up with. I just know from experience that my friends who buy Jap cars don't have as many issues as those of us with American or Euro cars. But I also appreciate no car payments and seeing as I have replaced most things on my MB I do enjoy it..and hopefully she will give me another decade or more of good service. =)
 

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PJ, if this is some sick way of justifying the purchase of a Lincoln town car its not funny. :p
 

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I have had three brand new BMW's in the last 9 years. The sum total of all warranty repairs:

1. 2002 330i - window regulator at 47k miles right before trade in - covered under warranty
2. 2005 330i - 2 control arms at 38k miles - covered under warranty, traded in at 45k miles
3. 2008 M3 - no repairs, 22k miles.

That's 2 problems in 9 years and over 100,000 miles. BMW has been pretty good to me and almost everyone I know that has one. I have heard from the dealer about the headaches they have had to deal with regarding the high pressure fuel pumps in the 3L twin turbo engines though.
 

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How a car company survives. Either euro or american they make and sell cars they also make parts. If parts dont fail they will close there doors. cars breaking down also creates jobs it keeps the economy moving assembly workers. Parts distributors delivery drivers tow truck drivers. The japanese dont operate like this in japan they change there engines every 30000 miles by law for emissions reasons thats why there. Parts dont fail as fast they survive with engine swaps.they also dont have competion from other automakers. In japan. So now you know how it works and we sit there how great they are one day this country will be completely jobless but will all own reliable toyotas
 

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The thing is, CR isn't saying this based on what they did, it is based on car owners. So they are not influencing these reports. Here is their official explanation:

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Our reliability survey

Our data are based on an annual survey of subscribers to Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org and are not derived from road tests. A model needs at least 100 responses per model year for us to score it.
Run this image through your mind: The person who is able to afford a $50k+ (entry level) luxury automobile (who also subscribes to CR) vs. Proper Car Maintenance and knowledge.

Now tell me if the data is reliable.
 

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I am glad that consumer reports was brought up here, not only for cars but in general. I had always put stock in what they published in the past until I started getting bit in the butt by taking into consideration their recommendations when I do purchase goods.

Now, after reading how they draw their conclusions on what to recommend and what appears to be a good product according to them, I find that there are major issues as to how they derive their data. They only receive a 6%-12% response rate to their "survey". According to the Detroit News, "Of over 4 million questionnaires sent this year, the magazine received responses regarding about 480,000 vehicles". I wonder what the owners of the other 3,520,000 thought of the cars they had. Plus the "survey" was only sent to subscribers of Consumer Reports instead of the general public or even a well defined control group.

If I learned anything from this post it would be to put less credence in what Consumer Reports publishes and stick closer to the information gathered from other sources that have a more controlled statistical gathering process. I did just that for this last new car I shopped for last month. Never even looked up the CR information on the new car but did read a lot from Edmonds and the usual car magazines and am much happier with this recent purchase so far.
 

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***
But Audi, BMW, and Mercedes-Benz are among the worst automakers overall.

Mercedes-Benz had the least reliable vehicles in three categories. Six of its 13 models were below average, and the GLK SUV was far below average this year. The redesigned E350 sedan was above average, but the new E-Class coupe, a wholly different car, was a disappointment.
I have several cousins in India and US who between them own several E class saloons only, ranging from model years 2007 at the lower end to 2010 at the top end and all they do is change oil. Not even one has complained of:

1. Shoddy service
2. Any car related problems

All of them are very happy with their cars and all are daily drivers.

Having said that, the mechanic whom I go to has a mechanic from the local Mercedes showroom/workshop come there every evening to share a smoke and a cup of coffee with my mechanic and he said that the only reason why Mercedes had problems with some models in the recent years were because of their Chrysler affiliation and they had to manufacture some models in US at the Chrysler plant due to their contractual agreement and which turned out to be less than the usual Mercedes quality. Having now ended that partnership, Mercedes models are now back to their usual previous standards.

As Greg said earlier, these consumer reports do not really reflect the true owner's experience.

Cheers
 

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I keep hearing the siren call of a Lincoln Town Car..lol.
I'd definately heed that call, Nightbird.

As you know, I bought one of its cheaper cousins, an 11 month old Grand Marquis LS, former Avis rental, at a Ford Mercury dealer, that cherry picked it at an LA auction with just 13k on the clock. Price to me:$15,988.

New MSRP: (I have copy of window sticker) : $29,950.

The depreciaton in the first year made it an unbeatable bargain!!!!


I added a catback legal, dual exhaust, a fullsize spare tire and matching wheel, and spare tire cover, and 40% tint all around, and couldn't be happier.




(photo taken by mclare) ^^^ thanks Mike



Pick up a one year old town car. A town HOUSE would be a better investment, than a town car, depreciation wise, but we are talking AUTOMOBILES, exclusively, here, though....:D
 

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No offence to cascades car, but that car is an 09!
Styling wise it looks like somthing out of 99 and if you loose the "edge" styling of the front bumpers it could have been designed in 89
Ford and GM should take a leaf out of their Aussy arms book ,the cars they produce are poorly made (though it has to be said rugged) but at least they look current, something that I would assume is at the top of the list of priorities for new car buyers....
 

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No offence to cascades car, but that car is an 09!
Styling wise it looks like somthing out of 99 and if you loose the "edge" styling of the front bumpers it could have been designed in 89
Ford and GM should take a leaf out of their Aussy arms book ,the cars they produce are poorly made (though it has to be said rugged) but at least they look current, something that I would assume is at the top of the list of priorities for new car buyers....
You may be on to something Joe. 20 years difference in age.
1989 Cougar 1st then the 2009:
 

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