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Smoke Silver '87 560SEC, Black Pearl '87 560SEL
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Here's the start of the LS6 installation process. The MB engine/tranny (E/T) are out and the plastic LSx engine with the GTO oil pan bolted on are just sitting on the cross member. I have not had the time yet to clean/paint the engine compartment before I go back to work but I just HAD to see what this looked like!

Next step will be clean the engine compartment, strap some 3/4" wood slats to the cross member to simulate engine clearance, bolt the 4L60E empty transmission housing to the plastic engine and then put it back into the SEC.
 

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One of the BW Old Guard/R129, W204 Moderator
1997 SL500- 40th Anniversary
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That is gonna be a bonnet full of whoop a**!
 

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'91 560SEC
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oh god thats gonna be awesome [:0] i hope you're planning on racing it, cuz its gonna be quick [:D]

Side question, when do you plan on finishing the entire project??
 

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Professor drooling very very much[:p][:p][:p]

Keep us updated. Make sure you document for all of us with pictures and technical data about to mods for engine mounts and transmission. The electronics too and fuel delivery.

This is something I would love to do, I am tiered of my 117 that never passes emissions.
 

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84 380se
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I would suggest when you are mocking up the motor mounts, and then fabricating them, that you make a second example. If this swap works well, you could probably make a fair buck or two selling the mounting hardware to folks that don't have the machine shop/welding equipment who wish to do a similar swap out in the future.

I base this on a old RV that I had, that came with an anemic Renault engine. There were some gentlemen who made money on swapping higher performance american engines into them, and they also sold just the conversion hardware for those who wanted a DIY solution

Otherwise, looks like it will be one helluva stealth racer. Keep us posted on the progress!

My $.02

Glenn
84 380 SE
 

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Looks good so far, you have a hell of a lot of spare room under there even the old 117 takes up more space, dont get me started on the 119, trying to find a guy who isnt scard to make design some extrators is pretty hard on the account of theres only <1cm clearance between the stock headers and the engine bay[:0]
Damn your gonna have a whole heap of go-fast options for that engine
 

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Smoke Silver '87 560SEC, Black Pearl '87 560SEL
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the kind comments! Several friends have come over and looked at the plastic engine in there and the basic premise of the conversations all started out with "Are you nuts?", "Can you really do that?", then pretty much all end with "Can I get a ride?".

Steve Lemberg (of FGS and BergWerks fame) is doing an LS1 into his 300CE. Our common goal is 1. when we're done, the car looks completely stock from the outside and sitting inside, and 2. We document the hell out of these two tasks just so we can provide sufficient information/kits to make this easy.

My avatar is exactly what the SEC is going to look like from the outside. No hood scoops, no huge tires (yet), probably even run dual exhausts out the same location in the back.

When is it going to be done? Don't have a clue. I'd LOVE to get it done by October when the 2006 MBCA StarFest comes to town, but...... I'm working out of town for next couple of weeks and then hopefully can live at home for a while (e.g., work on The Beast).

I understand (pretty much) what needs to be done, it's more a matter of time to get to it than dollars to do some of it. I still need a 4L65E transmission, way to mount the battery in the trunk, find a source of good automotive wiring in bulk in Las Vegas, etc. etc. :)

“you have a hell of a lot of spare room under there even the old 117 takes up more space.� Looks that way but the LSx is about ¾� longer and very close to the same width. I am going to have an easy time on the passenger’s side of the engine but the driver’s side is going to be a royal pain. There are six (3 sets) of engine mount bolt holes. The Camaro/Firebirds use the back four (sets 2 & 3) while Corvettes use the front two pair (sets 1 & 2). The MB engine cross member seems to be perfectly lined up with the center set of engine mount bolt holes so, as expected, I’m going to have to fabricate something special to mount the motor. Wonder how much trouble it would be to put in a rack-n-pinion steering assembly and throw away the biggest pain – the steering gearbox.

This engine has already been modified – camshaft (only needs one!), valve train upgrades, throttle body modifications. There are LOTS more things that could be done but I believe the engine is around 475 – 480 HP now and they don’t recommend using stock pistons and rods over 530 HP. Hell of a problem to have!!

Stay tuned,
Mike R.
 

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Mike,
Great looking work! Can you tell me what is this engine that your working on? I've kept up with your posts, but I don't know what exactly what it is. Please inform the ones who are not up to speed.

Regards,
 

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1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
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Rack and pinion, now you are talking. For your set up you'll see the difference with better response and more feedback. Good luck, Horst K
 

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I can let you know what needs to be done in regards to the rack and pinion steering , my mechanic has replaced the box in his SEC race car with one from a Ford Falcon (aus&NZ car) says its lighter and that the box is freakin heavy.
Im even looking into it for my SEL
 

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Smoke Silver '87 560SEC, Black Pearl '87 560SEL
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
500MPL – I’m buying a 2002 LS6 engine. The engine came from a Z06 Corvette and stock was 405 HP / 400 ft/lb torque. This one has been modified and dyno’d 410 rwhp, 396 rwtq, which calculates to around 480 HP / 470 ft/lb at the crank. It will likely have less than 5,000 miles on it when it shows up. I’ll get the engine some time in July, hence the plastic replica engine to use for sizing. I’m working on finding a 4L65E 4-speed overdrive transmission to bolt to it.

Lander91 – I would LOVE to hear how he did the rack and pinion (R-n-P) installation!! Getting rid of that big lump of a Mercedes steering gearbox would make this conversion (& exhaust manifold design) so much easier. I should be able to find a Camaro, Firebird, or Corvette R-n-P at a local salvage yard. I’m guessing that I could have a pair of tie rod ends fabricated that make the “new� R-n-P the same width as the MB steering unit and that makes using the standard LS6 power steering pump a perfect match. I too have an SEL that could use the conversion.

Mike R.
 

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1983 380SEC: 1995 S600 Coupe: 1993 600SEL
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mramay - 4/11/2006 9:20 AM


Lander91 – I would LOVE to hear how he did the rack and pinion (R-n-P) installation!! Getting rid of that big lump of a Mercedes steering gearbox would make this conversion (& exhaust manifold design) so much easier. I should be able to find a Camaro, Firebird, or Corvette R-n-P at a local salvage yard. I’m guessing that I could have a pair of tie rod ends fabricated that make the “new” R-n-P the same width as the MB steering unit and that makes using the standard LS6 power steering pump a perfect match. I too have an SEL that could use the conversion.

Mike R.
I would like to know about the R-N-P install as well. Maybe there could be a DIY thread on this. I,m in the process of reassembling a friends 500SEL AMG 5.0 DOHC car at the moment. Just replaced the intake manifold gaskets. Had to make my own as I hear there is only one source for OEM gaskets here in the states. I hear he wants way too much for his parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I haven't heard yet from the guy on how to do the R-N-P, guess I'll have to bug him a little. That RNP might just make the installation of the new engine lots easier!
 

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mramay.

I'm planning on doing the same swap. I have a 500se AMG with a blown motor. The car has been in the family for over 20 years. I think the LS1 is the way to go. I have done a Ls1 swap in my 68 Camaro and its not that hard. My biggest problem is getting the 500 into the country. The car is at my dads house in Croatia.
 

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Mike,

You know you have to get this done by StarFest. There are going to be a couple of track days associated with it at Spring Mountain. I will be testing out the Twin Turbo so I see no reason you can't waste a good set of tires with me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
mcbear said:
Mike,

You know you have to get this done by StarFest. There are going to be a couple of track days associated with it at Spring Mountain. I will be testing out the Twin Turbo so I see no reason you can't waste a good set of tires with me.
Don't you think I know that!! I am SO desperate to get home, off the road, to get to the car!! I think I'm done up in Richland, WA and will get to stay home after this week. The engine owner said it will likely be ready to ship with a couple of weeks so I'll get it in May instead of July. I'm going to have the major pieces figured out shortly but still need to find a 4L65E tranny for this thing. Maybe this weekend I can try the plastic engine with the 700R4 shell on it to see what fits, what doesn't. LOTS to do, just need time. I also need to talk to the Nevada emissions folks to find out what's needed when an '02 engine is put in an '87 car. More "stuff"!!

I would dearly love to get this thing done by October and be able to see which one of us can put down the longest pair of tire tracks on dry pavement!! If this goes as planned (which would be a first), I think I could get somewhere in third gear before it finally quits spinning the tires - maybe 50 feet. :) That, though, would require an IFR clearance to get anywhere near the car.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
SCE55 said:
mramay.

I'm planning on doing the same swap. I have a 500se AMG with a blown motor. The car has been in the family for over 20 years. I think the LS1 is the way to go. I have done a Ls1 swap in my 68 Camaro and its not that hard. My biggest problem is getting the 500 into the country. The car is at my dads house in Croatia.
OK, have the engine and tranny pulled over there and ship the car in as "parts". No DOT or EPA requirements. Keep the customs papers as you'll need them to register the car when you're done.

This swap will be more difficult than the Camaro:
1. German wiring
2. Battery should be moved to the trunk to make room for the cruise system and the ECM
3. That damn steering gear lump on the left frame rail EXACTLY where the headers want to go through.
4. minor difficulties with the shift linkages and throttle linkages
5. Interesting problems convincing the emissions police that what's in there is actually legal.
6. Gotta make your own motor and transmission mounts - nobody (yet) makes a set of them to bolt the LSx into an SEC, but I'm working on it.
7. etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
proudhon said:
Is the GTO oil pan a front sump?
Looks like fun...
Which trans are you going to use?
JD
Yep, the GTO is a front-sump. I took the plastic engine and put it in there backwards to simulate a rear-sump and it might just fit better. I'm going to look into getting rack and pinion setup before I decide.

I can bolt a GM 4L65E straight to the LS6. "65E" is a stronger "60E" that came in millions of GM cars & trucks. Going to use the SEC driveshaft, with a GM end welded onto it. The GM tranny is longer than the MB one so finding someone to just cut the driveshaft and weld on the piece shouldn't be hard to do.
 

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why did you get the 4L60E? when that thing breaks ( which it will if you plan racing it and putting some miles on it) its hell to fix...I say that you go with a 700-r4 with a automatic/manual valve body(allows you to safetly shift thrgh gears) from hughes performance or TCI run about 1800
 
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