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Bound to happen but horrible. The rush to electrification is premature IMHO. Let a few more years for the problems to surface and be sorted out first.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Playing it conservative seems to be what GM is did with the new Corvette. Meanwhile Porsche rolls out the Taycan. Admitidly they are in different price categories.
 

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Porsche is a whole different kettle of fish to Mercedes. Porsche is a small flagship high profile subsidiary of the mighty Volkswagen-Audi Group (which also includes Lamborghini and Ducati (shudder) these days). They specialize in limited run editions of their 911 models to circumvent EU type approval rules (less than 3000 units and they're exempt from a lot of them under the kit car / small manufacturer exemptions), whilst the more mundane Boxster, Cayman and SUV models pay the bills. QED they can produce (and presumably sell) small numbers of high end EVs at extortionate prices to those with more money than the Vatican.

Mercedes, on the other hand, is a mainstream manufacturer (yes really - see what all the taxis are in Europe) and the economies of mass production apply to them.

As an aside, an old University pal of mine is deeply involved in the EV program at Jaguar Land Rover. I asked him how much that electric E-type demonstrator they put out a couple of years ago would cost. Two word answer: "too much".
 

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Discussion Starter #5
It's the tricky thing about being a car company isn't it? Do you try to lead into new technology and ruin your mark with a faulty product? Or wait too long and get caught behind in technology.
Both have happened countless times over the years.
 

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Nothing wrong with going electric. Tesla's proved that it is viable, and now other copycats are jumping on the bandwagon to get a piece of that market. I have no problem with M-B going electric. Here in the United States, electric power makes a lot of sense, especially since we don't have the Autobahn's unlimited speed on our Interstates. The one bugaboo that I foresee is recharging the batteries. That still takes a while to get a full charge. Whereas, I can refill any of my cars in 10 minutes and keep going. An international standard for battery-pack format (dimensional and electrical), so that we could do quick battery-pack exchanges, would greatly help matters here. Tesla had the right idea, but sadly, they've backed off on that.

The big concern, and hope, is that Daimler, and other car companies, don't lock us out of maintaining our own vehicles. Not so many years ago, people maintained their own cars/pickups/whatever in their garages or driveways. I still do so for all of my household's vehicles. You should be able to work on and maintain something that you bought, like your vehicle. But the manufacturers are increasingly locking us out and trying to force us to go to only their "approved" shops, and there's something wrong with that. I'm all for "Right To Repair" legislation, for that reason, to force them to open up.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I would say the main consideration when thinking about an EV is simply what kind of driving do you do? If it's mainly highway and you'll need to refuel there is a certain amount of planing involved as far as taking advantage of your time during the charge. But if it's mainly trips less than thirty miles you will charge in your garage over night. Which most people find more convenient than dealing with the drama at the convenience store. Statistically owners of EV's charge in their garage 80% of the time. Naturally if you have an S and can use a Super-Charger free for life you might think more about using a remote charging station.
 

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In Europe the network of charging stations is widely established now. Not sure how long the lines of cars being pushed up to them one-by-one for recharge is, however I assume they add more if or when they need them.

Same too is beginning to happen in the US -- I am told there are three charging stations between Houston and San Antonio, for example.

Not sure I will ever be happy with the switch, I'm one of those who would probably have kept his horse until it finally died, then replaced that with a steam engine, but like people say, if you live in a city and only really drive around that city, EVs are beginning to make sense. Me? I'll be like one of those crazies in the Mad Max movies - hijacking 18-wheelers for that last pint of dino-juice.

I see problems if you live in an apartment or city home where charging overnight in your own garage / driveway might not be possible unless you're happy dangling an extension cord out an open window and seeing all that money you save running an EV go on higher heating / AC bills instead.

We must also remember it makes a lot of sense for manufacturers too. Once they go electric, they save a fortune on the "plus one" costs of manufacture (that is, the cost of producing just one extra vehicle once all the R&D, tooling, etc. costs have been recovered) - no infernal combustion engines, no transmissions, no gas tanks, no fuel injection...
 

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Where I live, it's a metropolitan/suburban area. The Tesla Model 3 is getting very popular here. Turns out the vast majority of the driving is indeed what @Marilyn2006 describes, city-style driving. People therefore do charge their cars at their homes overnight. Additionally, "getting away from it all" isn't so difficult. An hour or so away, we have the Appalachian range and Shenandoah National Park. We have the romantic-getaway-tourist-trap called Williamsburg, about two hours away. Even Virginia Beach is only about 3.5 hours away without traffic. Any Tesla can get to any of those destinations on a single charge easily and have juice to spare. So, fortunately, we have a lot of pretty darn cool things to do in this area.

The trick is getting home. If you're taking that 3.5 hour trip to Virginia Beach, which many people here do, then you've got to recharge. Optimally there'd be charging stations at the various hotels/motels, or on the parking lots for beachgoers, at restaurants/shopping malls frequented by tourists, etc. But we cannot count on that, as desirable as that would be. So, we have to rely on the network of chargers on the highways. That means we're sitting there for an hour+ while we're waiting for the charging. It's that hour+ for the charging that's going to put people off.

This is why I see internal combustion engines sticking around for a while. People know they can fill up in 10-15 minutes, generally, anywhere they go. We've known that since pretty much the Ford Model T days here in this country, and certainly the Model A days. If we could solve that problem for EV's...I think we'd see a 50% adoption rate by 2040, and that would be a good thing.
 

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^ Interim solution is going to be to have a milkfloat, sorry, EV, for the daily grind and something nice in the garage for the weekends. That's why I'm hell-bent on keeping my CLK63
 

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Discussion Starter #11
For trips over an hour away I always rent a car anyway. I don't like to clean bug guts off of Marilyn, and I definitely don't like road-rash. I'd also like so see the EV conversion market expand in the next few years because with 15000mi on the M272 with known timing sprocket problems, I might need to start thinking about Electric Marilyn before long
 

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^ My commute can take an hour each way - and it's only 20 miles or so :-(

And don't rush into thinking EVs will be bullet-proof either. They haven't really been around long enough and in sufficient numbers for problems with batteries, motors, controllers, etc. etc. to fully come to light.
 

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I am almost done with my wawa engine design. I will push it to Mercedes if they offer a good royalty rate.
 

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^ My commute can take an hour each way - and it's only 20 miles or so :-(

And don't rush into thinking EVs will be bullet-proof either. They haven't really been around long enough and in sufficient numbers for problems with batteries, motors, controllers, etc. etc. to fully come to light.
Indeed. Hence the need to maintain the Right to Repair our vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I was more interested in whether MB buyers would stay loyal to the product as an EV.
But it sounds like we're still considering whether EV's are even viable.
 

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Loyalty to Mercedes-Benz after they introduce electric vehicles to their product line, expressed as buying electric vehicles rather than gas or Diesel powered vehicles that are also offered will depend how well MB develops, and engineers electric propulsion hardware and software for each specific application they bring to market. If the result is as satisfying to own and operate as a line of vehicles a buyer has already owned - such that they buy another - then it is likely MB's electric vehicles will be successful. With the products being inserted at the high end of their product line, and in very limited numbers, this is likely to take a while to get enough feedback to make a determination.

I, personally, hope they do a great job and bring breakthrough solutions to their middle and lower level product lines sooner rather than later.

Jim
 

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If MB electrics are as well built as their dino-juice fueled predecessors then, when the sad day comes that I can no longer buy a planet killer, I would consider an electric Benz, yes. But by then I will probably be confined to a mobility scooter anyways...
 

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Jim's point is interesting here. Tesla's ongoing success has shown that buyers do appreciate the quick acceleration of an electric vehicle. My parents have a Tesla Model 3, and they say that overall, it's the best car that they've ever had. Apparently the company's doing something right.

The marketing problem that German car companies could have is Autobahn performance. German cars, for decades, have been revered for their high-speed Autobahn performance. Internal-combustion engines do better accelerating at speed than electric motors do; it's just the physics of how they operate. This is evidenced by how Teslas just kill any other cars off the line (this includes Lamborghini Aventadors), but past 100 mph, the gasoline-powered car starts running right past the Tesla. That doesn't mean that EV's cannot be good Autobahn performers. They'll have to gear the car properly.

Again, here in North America where we nicht have Autobahnen, this is totally not an issue, from a technical perspective. We here on BenzWorld know that. The big question is the marketing perspective. Given who typically buys Mercedes-Benz cars and why, they (the company) will have to market this right.
 
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