I am thinking about getting a car this year, and I saw the new M45 that Infiniti is going to come out during this year, and I read some good comment about this car. So I'm wondering if I should get a E500 or the M45...Any Comments?
E500 or M45?
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I own an 2004 E500 and love it so I am biased.
The M45 looks very good on paper. The G35 has delievered most of what was promised.
I have two concerns about the M45.
1. It isn't available until later this month so it is unproven.
2. Infiniti cars in the past have not kept their values in the resale market. Lexus, Acura, BMW, and MB have all out performed Infiniti in resale.
Today, I would go with the known commodity - the E500. Next year, who knows what would be the better choice.
Another thought. This market has a handful of competitors - E500, 545i., Lexus GS400(430), Lincoln LS V-8, Jaguar S-Type V-8, Audi A6, and the future M45.
They are all good cars. However, over time only two continue to shine above the rest - The MB and BMW.
Philip
The M45 looks very good on paper. The G35 has delievered most of what was promised.
I have two concerns about the M45.
1. It isn't available until later this month so it is unproven.
2. Infiniti cars in the past have not kept their values in the resale market. Lexus, Acura, BMW, and MB have all out performed Infiniti in resale.
Today, I would go with the known commodity - the E500. Next year, who knows what would be the better choice.
Another thought. This market has a handful of competitors - E500, 545i., Lexus GS400(430), Lincoln LS V-8, Jaguar S-Type V-8, Audi A6, and the future M45.
They are all good cars. However, over time only two continue to shine above the rest - The MB and BMW.
Philip
I agree with everything philipk said.
No doubt Infiniti's are nice cars. I really liked the G35 but it was too small for me.
Maybe it is a preference issue, but I just don't like the interior of the Infiniti cars that much. I think it looks too "high tech", and I am a guy who loves high tech stuff. The MB E500 is LOADED with technology, much of which I thought was alot better implemented than in the Infiniti, and yet the interior has a more classic design that I think will still be in style when I want to sell this car in a few years. I thought the Infiniti interior reminded me too much of lower-end stereo components.
I don't know if you have done this yet, but just go and sit inside each of the cars, without the salesman present, and pay real attention to the quality and detail of the finishes and tolerances (is there a consistent width on the gaps where panels come together etc.) Also, look at things like how the control levers and buttons actually FEEL when you operate them. I think that when you do this excercise, the difference between an E500 and a Japanese competitor will become really clear.
I got my E500 after ditching a Lexus LS430 that I had bought brand-new only 5 months before, but which was put together like a piece of crap and which I couldn't stand. Yes, on a quick glance, like what you would have on a test drive, it certainly looked like a very well built car, but once you got to spend some real time in it, you began to notice all of the little things where they just didn't come through on the quality control....in particular the tolerances on the installation of different components.
A final, but important issue to consider, is whether you want to buy one of the first production models of a new/redesigned car model. I can tell you that, having done this before, I would NEVER do it again. There are always problems when they start production on a new model, and the people that buy it end up working for free as "beta-testers" for the car company so that the bugs can be worked out. In my experience, you are way better off when you purchase the second (or later) model year of a new design.
The E500 is my first MB and it is such a great car that I can easily say my next vehicle will also be am MB. I am sure either car would be a good choice, but my recommendation is for the MB.
No doubt Infiniti's are nice cars. I really liked the G35 but it was too small for me.
Maybe it is a preference issue, but I just don't like the interior of the Infiniti cars that much. I think it looks too "high tech", and I am a guy who loves high tech stuff. The MB E500 is LOADED with technology, much of which I thought was alot better implemented than in the Infiniti, and yet the interior has a more classic design that I think will still be in style when I want to sell this car in a few years. I thought the Infiniti interior reminded me too much of lower-end stereo components.
I don't know if you have done this yet, but just go and sit inside each of the cars, without the salesman present, and pay real attention to the quality and detail of the finishes and tolerances (is there a consistent width on the gaps where panels come together etc.) Also, look at things like how the control levers and buttons actually FEEL when you operate them. I think that when you do this excercise, the difference between an E500 and a Japanese competitor will become really clear.
I got my E500 after ditching a Lexus LS430 that I had bought brand-new only 5 months before, but which was put together like a piece of crap and which I couldn't stand. Yes, on a quick glance, like what you would have on a test drive, it certainly looked like a very well built car, but once you got to spend some real time in it, you began to notice all of the little things where they just didn't come through on the quality control....in particular the tolerances on the installation of different components.
A final, but important issue to consider, is whether you want to buy one of the first production models of a new/redesigned car model. I can tell you that, having done this before, I would NEVER do it again. There are always problems when they start production on a new model, and the people that buy it end up working for free as "beta-testers" for the car company so that the bugs can be worked out. In my experience, you are way better off when you purchase the second (or later) model year of a new design.
The E500 is my first MB and it is such a great car that I can easily say my next vehicle will also be am MB. I am sure either car would be a good choice, but my recommendation is for the MB.
Agree with everything JG in SB said. I too was considering the Infiniti, but could not get past the pleasant yet common Nissan (bland ) exterior. Just did not have that luxury car look. The interior is high tech, but the rosewood trim looks like contact paper and there is something about the feel inside that did not appeal to me. The E500 is beautiful, classic and the interior just feels right.[8)]
Well, I love Infinitis.
Unfortunately, however, M 45 did not do very well in the U.S. market. As “philipk� mentioned, there are too many competitions, and among them only E Class and 5 series have its own integrity and history.
I would say that the new runners, Acura, Infiniti and Lexus have been doing very well little bit over last 10 years. Vehicles from those companies sometimes deliver better performance, quality or reliability than conventional European luxuries.
However, I would say that European luxury cars, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar, etc. are at least one level above in terms of design and the real luxurious feelings.
Good friend of mine traded his Audi A4 to Infiniti G35 few months ago (he was always complaining about frequent breakdown of Audi). However, these days he is telling me that he feels like missing something in Infiniti.
For small cars as a daily driver, I would definitely choose Asian brand cars, such as Nissan or Honda, but for luxury car (or performance car), I still do not want to throw my money away for new comers.
Unfortunately, however, M 45 did not do very well in the U.S. market. As “philipk� mentioned, there are too many competitions, and among them only E Class and 5 series have its own integrity and history.
I would say that the new runners, Acura, Infiniti and Lexus have been doing very well little bit over last 10 years. Vehicles from those companies sometimes deliver better performance, quality or reliability than conventional European luxuries.
However, I would say that European luxury cars, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Jaguar, etc. are at least one level above in terms of design and the real luxurious feelings.
Good friend of mine traded his Audi A4 to Infiniti G35 few months ago (he was always complaining about frequent breakdown of Audi). However, these days he is telling me that he feels like missing something in Infiniti.
For small cars as a daily driver, I would definitely choose Asian brand cars, such as Nissan or Honda, but for luxury car (or performance car), I still do not want to throw my money away for new comers.
I'm not sure, from reading the previous posts, that everyone is aware that Infinit has a new M35 and M45 out, quite different from the M45 of the past few years.
Anyway. Another consideration is how the two cars drive. It may be too early for test drives - last weekend I got to sit in a new M35 and M45 (Infiniti of Elk Grove, if anyone cares) but wasn't offered a test drive. The salesguy started up the M45 and it sure did sound nice, BTW, much more rumbly than my E500.
By the reviews and road tests I've read, the new M45 is an excellent-handling car, especially with the "rear wheel steering" feature, with good road feel. That's something I miss on the E500 compared to my previous car, a '97 BMW 528i. The E500 is actually fairly competent on twisty roads, but it doesn't have that sports sedan feel - you're always in control, but it feels heavy, imprecise and unresponsive when pushed. Cranking up the air suspension stiffness on the E500 (not an option on the Infiniti) makes the cornering flatter but doesn't improve "feel" very much. If weekend driving is at all important to you, I wouldn't decided between the two cars just by sitting in them or by taking slow drives down straight roads. Take them out where you can push them around curves - freeway transition ramps, if nothing better is available near the dealer.
Anyway. Another consideration is how the two cars drive. It may be too early for test drives - last weekend I got to sit in a new M35 and M45 (Infiniti of Elk Grove, if anyone cares) but wasn't offered a test drive. The salesguy started up the M45 and it sure did sound nice, BTW, much more rumbly than my E500.
By the reviews and road tests I've read, the new M45 is an excellent-handling car, especially with the "rear wheel steering" feature, with good road feel. That's something I miss on the E500 compared to my previous car, a '97 BMW 528i. The E500 is actually fairly competent on twisty roads, but it doesn't have that sports sedan feel - you're always in control, but it feels heavy, imprecise and unresponsive when pushed. Cranking up the air suspension stiffness on the E500 (not an option on the Infiniti) makes the cornering flatter but doesn't improve "feel" very much. If weekend driving is at all important to you, I wouldn't decided between the two cars just by sitting in them or by taking slow drives down straight roads. Take them out where you can push them around curves - freeway transition ramps, if nothing better is available near the dealer.
That's really interesting about the "rear wheel steering". I actually had that feature on my 1989 Honda Prelude SI back in college. It was really neat and the active steering of the rear wheels did certainly keep the back end tighter on curves. However, until you get used to it, you will often "curb out" when making tight right hand turns into parking lots etc.
As for the "feel" of the E500, mine has the sport/appearance package (I don't know how much difference this makes besides the wheels/tires), but I find it to be very good feeling on curvy mountain roads, which we have plenty of around her ein Santa Barbara. I drove a 2005 BMW 5-series on some of these same roads and if there is a difference in handling, I must not be enough of a "performance driving afficionado" to notice it.
As for the "feel" of the E500, mine has the sport/appearance package (I don't know how much difference this makes besides the wheels/tires), but I find it to be very good feeling on curvy mountain roads, which we have plenty of around her ein Santa Barbara. I drove a 2005 BMW 5-series on some of these same roads and if there is a difference in handling, I must not be enough of a "performance driving afficionado" to notice it.
"Rear wheel steering" is my inexact term for the Infiniti system; I'm too lazy to look up their actual term. The rear wheels move only one degree either way; the system is designed for lane changes and curves at speed, not for parallel parking.
Full disclosure: My perception of the relative nimbleness of the E500 and the E39 BMW may be colored by the Continental tires on my '03 E500 - which nobody seems to like - and by the fact that the BMW had a manual transmission.
Full disclosure: My perception of the relative nimbleness of the E500 and the E39 BMW may be colored by the Continental tires on my '03 E500 - which nobody seems to like - and by the fact that the BMW had a manual transmission.
Driving is good with the M45, but the interior the E500 is better. Its a very tough choice...still don't know which one is better. On the reliability issue, i heard japanese manufacturers are better.
[}
]I heard the same thing and that is what convinced me to buy an SC 430 Lexus last April which I traded in with 1,900 miles on it last week on an '05 SL 55. Thes seats on the car basically started to disintegrate after 700 miles. 8 attempts and the Dealer made it worse on each attempt. Resolution "This is all that we can do". $65,000 car and that is all they can do. Car was in the rain less than 10 times was never allowed to sit in the sun afterwards : acid rain spots on the hood, roof and trunk. Resolution "Yes the paint on these is very fragile": well known fact. 15 chips in the winshield: the car was on the Freeway system no more than 15 times, 8 of which were to take it back to the dealer longest distance 20 miles. Again well known fact the glass on the Japenese cars is prone to chipping Annoying rattles from the seats and door panels that were repaired by the dealer. Enough of the "Ultimate Pursuit of Perfection" crap.The reliability issue is one that does hold true for the mechanicals on the Japanese cars, I will grat you that. However the issues that I stated are not rae for them. If you can afford it go with the Benz in the long run you will not be sorry.
Lou K
lkirchner's post was really interesting because it almost exactly mirrors my experience with Lexus. Mine was in an LS430. That was the worst car I have ever owned, and I have owned JEEP's before!!! As far as I am concerned, the quality of Lexus starts and ends with the sales brochure!! Off topic I know, biut since I had to take a major "haircut" when I ditched the POS Lexus in favor of my MB, it makes me feel a little bit better to make sure others are aware of my "Lexus Experience".
I think new Infiniti M will not sell that well in the North American market.
My personal point of view, it looks too similar to new 2005 Toyota Avalon.
Don’t you guys think so too?
P.S. This is my 100th thread[].
My personal point of view, it looks too similar to new 2005 Toyota Avalon.
Don’t you guys think so too?
P.S. This is my 100th thread[
].Congrats on your #100!!
I think it will sell quite well due to its pricing and the fact that its loaded with features and it also handles well. It is boring and it has that standard Japanese play it safe look, but that has not stopped sales in the past, witness the huge # of boring Toyotas out there, along with most Lexus models.
I think it will sell quite well due to its pricing and the fact that its loaded with features and it also handles well. It is boring and it has that standard Japanese play it safe look, but that has not stopped sales in the past, witness the huge # of boring Toyotas out there, along with most Lexus models.
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The new W211 is by far one of the better cars out there, only to be matched by (I hate saying this) the new 5-Series.[:I]
All of the rest of the competitors are just as good or better in some fields but fall way short in others (Specially resale).
Good luck making a decision.
All of the rest of the competitors are just as good or better in some fields but fall way short in others (Specially resale).
Good luck making a decision.
thx guys for the advice...most likely i'm not gonna get the M45...I got bored of the look of the car...E500's design will be a better choice afterall..
Hey before you make this decision, it happens i drove an M45 sport today! I have driven both and honestly, even after falling in love with Mb, the M45 is much more fun to drive. It is also loaded with more features than the E500 for less of the price. The E500 in my oppinion isnt even in the same leuage as the M45 or its closest comparison, the 545i. E class is beautiful, dont get me wrong, but if you want a reliable, fast, sporty,and sexy car, go for the M45. I think it might even be my wifes next car, replacing her 95 Nordic. When i drove it, i was completly caught by suprise seeing how sporty it was, after being skeptical of it being just another ok effort by a jap manufacture. Make your own decision, but i suggest atleast seriously considering the M45.
Hope this helps,
BenP
(PS I bet all of you hate me right now, liking an Infinity over an MB. But when it comes to brand loyalty, I choose MB anyday. This is just an honest oppinion!)
Hope this helps,
BenP
(PS I bet all of you hate me right now, liking an Infinity over an MB. But when it comes to brand loyalty, I choose MB anyday. This is just an honest oppinion!)
Thx man...I will take a longer time to think about it before I make the decision
yep, no problem. if you like your 745 because of the gadgets, then the M45 is sure to impress you, only it is much simpler to operate.
BenP
pm me with any questions
BenP
pm me with any questions
saw the new infiniti on the road. it looked very boring and uninspiring. had lots of chrome and shine but lacked smooth lines and muscular bulge of mercedes. reminded me of a hopped up kia or something.
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