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mercedes w211 e350, B200 w245, w212 e63 amg 6.2L
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Discussion Starter #1
hey
i've noticed an LSD on kleemann for the e350 w211
But another thing i've noticed is my car already has an LSD?
whats the go with that?
 

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2009 E63
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557 Posts
The E350s don't have a limited slip as OEM. Maybe you're confusing it with ESP. With ESP the car brakes the rear drive wheels when slipping. The way to really tell is looking at your drive wheel when you spin the tires. Is only one spinning or are you getting twin patches or rubber laid on the tarmac?

There are several aftermarket vendors besides Kleemann, so it's possible (but doubtful) that somebody installed one on your car if you aren't the original owner. OS Giken, Quaife, FVD, Eaton, AMG, etc.. But not many are available for Mercedes as there's such a small market.

And there are different types: full lock; limited lock; clutch; geared; electronic; viscous (like the Porsche C4S and Turbos.) The AMG performance package LSD is not a full locking style LSD, it's only 40%. Renntech has worked with OS Giken to offer a 100% full locking LSD, but it's very expensive (and pretty silly for a E350 V6.)

They aren't really necessary (or that noticeable) unless you track the car or drive hard on twisty roads and need power to shift to the other wheel. Or drive in mud and do offroad stuff.

btw, Ferdinand Porsche had ZF design one for him back in 1935 for racing. One of the first applications.
 

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2009 E63
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557 Posts
you see the 4matic badge at the back of your car. Then you have LSD? It is basically for AWD.
That's right about 4matic (although I'm pretty sure he has a RWD W211.)

The 4Matic has a center differential with fixed spring loaded multiple disk clutch diff that allows for a lock depending on torque levels (up to like 50 or something, can't recall.) It's not a 'true' full locking LSD (in the context of performance driving) but it does work well.
 

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mercedes w211 e350, B200 w245, w212 e63 amg 6.2L
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Discussion Starter #5
well mine isnt 4 matic and both the wheels are spinning, sooo... at the moment im fair confused about it.
+ thats with the ESP off.
But yeah im the first owner of this car pretty much so it cant have an LSD in it.
But yeah i was wondering why both tires are spinning and if so should i still buy an LSD, apprently it will help alot in handling and give it a bit more performance.
 

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2009 E63
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557 Posts
Your open diff will send torque to the wheels, and if both wheels have equal traction they can both spin. Put one of the wheels on different pavement (or oil slicked pavement or ice) and see what happens. Equal traction is not always the case in the real world. That's where the LSD comes into play.

If both tires lose traction at the same time, they will both spin (w/ ESP off.) That's what you see. But if one tire loses traction first, it will spin without letting the other tire catch. Do a donut in your car, and watch as you roast the drive tire while the other tire doesn't smoke. You can only do burnouts with one tire smoking.

Note that in the Mercedes, ESP is never 100% off even when you turn the button off. This has been discussed a million times in AMG forums on the net.

Unless you can do this every time, you don't have a limited slip diff:

 

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W212 M276 DELA 30 ; W211 OM642 ; R107 M117, W163 M112 E32
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Your open diff will send torque to the wheels, and if both wheels have equal traction they can both spin. Put one of the wheels on different pavement (or oil slicked pavement or ice) and see what happens. Equal traction is not always the case in the real world. That's where the LSD comes into play.

If both tires lose traction at the same time, they will both spin (w/ ESP off.) That's what you see. But if one tire loses traction first, it will spin without letting the other tire catch. Do a donut in your car, and watch as you roast the drive tire while the other tire doesn't smoke. You can only do burnouts with one tire smoking.

Note that in the Mercedes, ESP is never 100% off even when you turn the button off. This has been discussed a million times in AMG forums on the net.

Unless you can do this every time, you don't have a limited slip diff:


Did you help free my cousin Vinny from his bogus murder charge?
 

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2009 E63
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557 Posts
Did you help free my cousin Vinny from his bogus murder charge?
LOL. I remember that. Positraction! :D

Mona Lisa Vito: The car that made these two, equal-length tire marks had positraction. You can't make those marks without positraction, which was not available on the '64 Buick Skylark!
Vinny Gambini: And why not? What is positraction?
Mona Lisa Vito: It's a limited slip differential which distributes power equally to both the right and left tires. The '64 Skylark had a regular differential, which, anyone who's been stuck in the mud in Alabama knows, you step on the gas, one tire spins, the other tire does nothing.
[the jury members nod, with murmurs of "yes," "that's right," etc]
Vinny Gambini: Is that it?
Mona Lisa Vito: No, there's more! You see? When the left tire mark goes up on the curb and the right tire mark stays flat and even? Well, the '64 Skylark had a solid rear axle, so when the left tire would go up on the curb, the right tire would tilt out and ride along its edge. But that didn't happen here. The tire mark stayed flat and even. This car had an independent rear suspension. Now, in the '60's, there were only two other cars made in America that had positraction, and independent rear suspension, and enough power to make these marks. One was the Corvette, which could never be confused with the Buick Skylark. The other had the same body length, height, width, weight, wheel base, and wheel track as the '64 Skylark, and that was the 1963 Pontiac Tempest.
Vinny Gambini: And because both cars were made by GM, were both cars available in metallic mint green paint?
Mona Lisa Vito: They were!
Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Ms. Vito. No more questions. Thank you very, very much.
[kissing her hands]
Vinny Gambini: You've been a lovely, lovely witness.
 

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2006 E320 CDI
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Note that in the Mercedes, ESP is never 100% off even when you turn the button off. This has been discussed a million times in AMG forums on the net.

On the other hand, you can enter dyno mode trough instrument cluster and then everything is off, even airbags are disable; you can check oil level in real time when engine is working.
 

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Jack the back end up and turn one wheel by hand and if the other turns the same direction you have a posi, if it turns opposit you have an open diff. Generally speaking LSD is never fitted in cars with traction control, they use differential braking and reduced power to prevent wheel spin.

Dan
 

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2009 E63
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On the other hand, you can enter dyno mode trough instrument cluster and then everything is off, even airbags are disable; you can check oil level in real time when engine is working.
For those who want to check out dyno mode:
Put the key in position 1, then put the IC in "outside temp" then press and hold phone answer button and then immediately press and hold OK button. (after the IC comes up you have to turn it to position 2.)

Generally speaking LSD is never fitted in cars with traction control, they use differential braking and reduced power to prevent wheel spin.
Not quite. The AMGs with P030 have a LSD and ESP. And my Porsche has a LSD and traction control......... common in modern performance cars.

ESP uses braking but the LSD shifts power from the left side drive wheel to the other wheel.
 

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Purple Moderator
99 ML430, 00 ML320, 05 E500 4matic Wagon
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22,119 Posts
I have a Torsen T-2R LSD and it has really impressed me. It is gear based and when it
locks on a solid traction surface it is something to really to take note of. It is in the
Steeda prepped track monster I run. I had killed the other brands in a weekend and
the Torsen just goes and goes and goes.
I believe Audi used the T-1 in the Quattro design. Now they have the T-3 which is designed
for AWD applications.
The Torsens are a favorite for the endurance racing teams of many makes. Great product.
Wish they made one for my W124.
 

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1990 190E 2.3
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178 Posts
Unless you can do this every time, you don't have a limited slip diff:



Theres a bogan here from Sydney who has a W211 (I think he stole it) who would think the skid marks are cool.
He is a tosser of the highest calibre.

He has totally wrecked his W211 by stupid girly looking mods - and posts here due his lack of confidence.
LOSER
 

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2005 E55 & 2002 S500
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44 Posts
Unless you can do this every time, you don't have a limited slip diff:



Theres a bogan here from Sydney who has a W211 (I think he stole it) who would think the skid marks are cool.
He is a tosser of the highest calibre.

He has totally wrecked his W211 by stupid girly looking mods - and posts here due his lack of confidence.
LOSER
oh yeh? link of his modded car ?
 
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