Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hello
The rear window guide on the door window on my 76 450SLC detached itself from the glass after I had adjusted the small set screws to increase pressure and stop the rattle when in the down position.
I now need to remove the door window glass and look to glue the guide back on.
I have read most of the posts dealing with this on the forum and looked at the service manual.
Could someone who has done this confirm that, as per the manual, only the rear window guide rail needs to be removed, before the window is unbolted from the regulator (2 lift brackets and 4 bolts) and then removed by tilting down and removing from the rear.
And the front window guide rail can remain in place?
Given I had just finished replacing all the side window seals I would prefer not to remove the door window outer seal again.
Can someone also confirm that only the inner window seal and clips need to be removed to remove the window glass, and the outer seal can remain in place?
Thanks.
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
You don't need to remove the front rail or the front guide block. Given that I had already removed both the seals prior to removing the glass I CAN'T confirm that only the inner seal need be removed.
 

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for the feedback Graeme.
I have loosened the front window rail and removed the rear window rail.
I have lowered the window approximately ¾ of the way down to access the 4 bolts fixing the bottom of the window channel to the regulator and put a block of wood under the window to support it when I do remove all 4 bolts.

Is there a trick to actually removing the window glass once the 4 bolts are removed?
Is it as simple as lifting the glass from the top, and then as it nears full height simply rotating the front edger down and withdrawing the glass from the top rear of the door towards the back of the car?

I have cleaned up the rear guide that was fixed to the glass. It has what looks like some sort of material (felt) that was folded in a U shape and sits between the glass and the metal guide. There does not appear to be any glue between the felt and the guide or the felt and the glass. I will know more when I remove the glass.
In your experience is there a possibility that the guide was a push fit into the glass originally, with no glue used from the factory?
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
The window s/be vertical when at the final stage of removal. Yes, the blocks are press fitted and have some sort of fabric that would have contained glue. After many years the blocks just drop off. You need to use a good mastic/glue that works on glass. I can't remember which product I finally used but I think E6000 will work. You will probably see marks on the glass. where the block was fitted.Keep you eye out for the little rubber inserts that go in the block to reduce rattling on the rail.
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
Another pic . Note that yours may or may not have little screws in the block. If it does have a screw don't tighten- they are meant to be loose enough to slide easily.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thanks Graeme
I suspect it is a two-person job to remove the window glass and not scratch it. Hopefully it will work out OK when I try it myself.
I plan to remove the 4 bolts then left the glass to 90% full height then rotate the front corner down and withdraw it at an upwards angle from the enlarged open upper section of the door (concealed normally behind the chrome cover plate).
I will let you know how I go.
I have all the bits I believe. And the guide was initially attached to the glass (although obviously not too securely) as when I followed the manual procedure and tightened the adjusting grub screw (and then backed it off as per the instructions), this stopped the rattle as it is supposed to do. However I suspect that the increased resistance must have caused the guide block to fall off as I cycled the window checking the operation.

I have test fitted the felt type fabric over an exposed glass edge and tried to push the guide block on to see how tight things are. It seems very tight. It was only a trial and I did not attempt to push it on all the way.

Once I have the glass out and cleaned up I will decide whether a press fit is sufficient to retain the guide block on the glass, or glue is needed in the felt to glass interface and in the felt to metal guide block interface. I suspect glue will be needed.

cheers.
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
Thanks Graeme
I suspect it is a two-person job to remove the window glass and not scratch it. Hopefully it will work out OK when I try it myself.
I plan to remove the 4 bolts then left the glass to 90% full height then rotate the front corner down and withdraw it at an upwards angle from the enlarged open upper section of the door (concealed normally behind the chrome cover plate).
I will let you know how I go.
I have all the bits I believe. And the guide was initially attached to the glass (although obviously not too securely) as when I followed the manual procedure and tightened the adjusting grub screw (and then backed it off as per the instructions), this stopped the rattle as it is supposed to do. However I suspect that the increased resistance must have caused the guide block to fall off as I cycled the window checking the operation.

I have test fitted the felt type fabric over an exposed glass edge and tried to push the guide block on to see how tight things are. It seems very tight. It was only a trial and I did not attempt to push it on all the way.

Once I have the glass out and cleaned up I will decide whether a press fit is sufficient to retain the guide block on the glass, or glue is needed in the felt to glass interface and in the felt to metal guide block interface. I suspect glue will be needed.

cheers.
You only need a slightly firm fit with the fabric and then added glue should work well, however, dont overdo the pressure or you might crack the glass as it gets brittle with age.. Definitely add glue. If you still have one seal on when you remove it maybe try slipping a garbage bag in to protect the glass on the other side.
 

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Graeme
I have removed the door glass. I decided to remove the exterior trim and window seal along with all the clips. :-((
I had just finished installing them, and they were very difficult to remove again with the new clips installed.
But ... better to be safe than sorry I guess.

The bottom support U shaped channel that bolts to the window regulator had started to rust at the rear ⅓ and had come apart. This caused lots of problems removing the glass from the door!!
I could see no simple fix for this, as the channel seems to be made from two side pieces that are tack welded together at points along the bottom.
The channel was loose at the back ⅓ of the length and the rubber insert had come away from the glass, but I could not remove the channel and the rubber from the bottom edge of the window glass so decided to to screw the channel together with two 8G ss screws to provide additional support.
I suspect the channels are not available separately, and even if they were they would then probably need to be glued to the bottom edge of the window glass.

I tested fitted the rear guide part of the way into the glass and found it a very very tight fit. See photo. I have not attempted to push it on further at this stage as I am unsure if I could get it back off easily. I used a small block of timber to knock it on as you see in the photo.
I am thinking simply using a windscreen sealant on both sides of the felt, and installing the felt on the glass, and then knocking the guide onto the felt very carefully. I can't see that moving.
Graeme could you confirm the location of the rear guide block. I believe that the bottom is approximately 12 mm up from the bottom corner of the glass? does the location in the photo look about right to you?

Someone has been into the door before me and the larger front guide seems to have been glued on. I can move the guide on the glass by hand but need a fair degree of force to do so. It does not slide up or down along the glass edge, so I am considering leaving the guide alone.

2625733


2625734
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
Mine was in a poor state also so I POR'd it . See the attached pic showing the position of the blocks.BTW I would use a thinner fabric and add glue then wait a day for it to harden properly. Don't force it. The pic is the good side!
 

Attachments

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Thanks.
That what I had marked up on the glass.

I went to Spotlight and purchased an A4 sheet of stiff felt and a small tube of E6000 glue.
E6000 is recommended for gluing a variety of materials, including fabric to metal.

I masked off each side of the glass for each of the two guides.
I cut the felt to suit the U shape of the inside face of each guide and covered one side in E6000 glue and wrapped it around the glass to the masking tape lines.
I then covered the exposed external area of the felt on both sides and the edge and pushed the guide back on over the glue and felt, and removed the masking tape.
I will give it 48 hours to set fully and let you know if it works.

By the way I trialled a section of rubber inner tube before I decided to go with the felt, but I could not get the guide on. So rather than take a chance of damaging the glass, I went back to plan A, and used the new felt.
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
Thanks.
That what I had marked up on the glass.

I went to Spotlight and purchased an A4 sheet of stiff felt and a small tube of E6000 glue.
E6000 is recommended for gluing a variety of materials, including fabric to metal.

I masked off each side of the glass for each of the two guides.
I cut the felt to suit the U shape of the inside face of each guide and covered one side in E6000 glue and wrapped it around the glass to the masking tape lines.
I then covered the exposed external area of the felt on both sides and the edge and pushed the guide back on over the glue and felt, and removed the masking tape.
I will give it 48 hours to set fully and let you know if it works.

By the way I trialled a section of rubber inner tube before I decided to go with the felt, but I could not get the guide on. So rather than take a chance of damaging the glass, I went back to plan A, and used the new felt.
I suppose your trip to Spotlight was absolutely essential travel. Watch out for the virus police!!! 😉
 

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
I walked. It’s about 3-4 kms away on other side of centenn park. So most of trip was a nice walk across the park. Mind you spotlight was busy though.
lm a bit nervous as to how the new felt and glue will go. Should know more tomorrow.
thx for your help.

next job is to pull the door handle off and try repair the opening cover plate that was damaged when I suspect someone tried to break in with a screwdriver. I’ll start a new thread.
have you had the door handle lock apart?
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
Yes I have had one apart. I have a few pics - I'll post them tomorrow.
 

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Hi Graeme
I started a new thread re repairing the external keyway cap in my door handle. Anything you can provide re repair suggestions is appreciated.
cheers.
 

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Hi Graeme
Looking over your photos closely, it appears as if there may be a small piece of felt between the plastic U guide that runs up/down the window guide channel and the guide block itself?
Is this correct?
There is no felt insert in my guide blocks.
The grub screws simply pinches the plastic guides and clamp onto the window guide rail?
 

·
Premium Member
1983 380SL, 2000 S430, 1991 420SEL (retired) - RHD
Joined
·
5,531 Posts
It's actually nylon ( very dirty in the pic). No doubt meant to reduce rattle. There is a nipple on the side which goes into the block to hold it in place. Maybe check the bottom of your door
The grub screws are not meant to be tight at all. The felt is between the glass and the block where the glue goes.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
1976 450 SLC
Joined
·
138 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
For those following along ...finally put the door back together after gluing the window guide blocks back on the window glass and installing the window glass and guide blocks into the door and refitting the rear guide rail and connecting the glass to the window lifting mechanism. This is a bit tricky if you are doing this by yourself with no help.
Note: if removing the glass the front guide rail can stay in place. ... and whilst I removed the outer door trim, seal and clips I suspect these can also remain in place.
I had also fitted new door seal and three new window seals and adjusting the frameless window travel and position, and the pressure on the new roof and A and B (rear window) pillar seals.

Installed the greased and adjusted door handle after the repair of the hinged keyway hinged cover flap, and after cleaning and lubricating the external mirror, also put that back together and installed it also.

Removed old brittle sill covers and fitted new sill covers.


IMG_0521.jpg
IMG_0613.JPG
IMG_0506.jpg
 
1 - 19 of 19 Posts
Top