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Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just curious if this one has been discussed here. It looks like Bruce Mendel's in Philadelphia, tempting to drive my 500se up there and take a look.

https://www.ebay.com/i/112565185351

But I wonder how he determined it's a 6.0. It looks like a stock m119 engine on top. Interesting to see one with an m117 air cleaner though.

Does it have an m117 block? Did he measure the stroke of the piston via the spark plug hole? I imagine it's not very easy to provide it's a 6.0.

Very neat to see!
 

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1985 500sel and 500sec 2012 E63 1989 Porsche 911
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isnt this bruce mendel a different bruce mendel than who was on the board 10 yrs ago often
 

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R.I.P. Never Forgotten
1983-2007 MB's
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No one would make a 5.0, 5.6 M117/9. All were 6.0's done by AMG. The AMG M117/9 - what this motor is called was an hybrid motor. Still some mystique about the engineering behind this motor. Some assume it is a 117 block with 119 heads, others say its a retrofitted 119. For all the work required to mate the heads of the 119 to a 117 block, no one has verified because no one has pulled one out and documented all the block and intake/head details. So it could be an early M119 that was adapted with a M117 front timing cover, for one. Converting from serpentine belt to the classic twin vee-belt design another...

Someone commented earlier the engine block number may not be matching to the one on the door tag - either this was an original M117 32V that was changed over to a later M117/9. The break-in sticker on the center console - I have seen on M117 6.0 32V's but this was a first on a car with a M117/9.

As for stroke - I had the same situation with my 400E RENNtech - confirmed the motor was a 5.0 short block (not a 4.2 block) and then went ahead to measure the stroke. Using bad tools at first got a 100mm figure - unicorn territory, but later got to a more palatable 94.8mm, which hit the 6.0 displacement figure. Same thing with this car....through spark plug holes, measure, re-measure, re-remeasure. Also take a borescope camera to inspect the piston dish.

 

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Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you. I see what you say about the block number potentially not matching the door tag. If it does not match, that would make it sound like the original engine is long gone, and replaced by an m119 block with an m117 timing chain cover and accessories / v-belt drive. I bet it's a tough call when doing that... whether the crank gets swapped from an m117.

But this builds hope for people wanting to do an m119 swap without wanting to bring over all the electronics and dual distributor caps (notorious for collecting moisture and corrosion).

I'd love to do that a little simpler than even the gen2 cars though. The gen1 have even less electronics. So I wonder what timing chain covers are easy / hard to swap. All this is very tempting to play around with when I've got access to 3.5, 3.8, (m116) 4.5, 5.0, 5.6 (m117) and 3-4 different types of 5.0 m119.




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1985 500sel and 500sec 2012 E63 1989 Porsche 911
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why does datamb.com site show this car should be artic white with blue leather
 

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84 500SEL AMG, 90 560SEC AMG, 85 500SEC AMG Widebody
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Not Bruce Mendel! Coincidence on the name/state.
 

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Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I sold a 380slc engine to a guy in Philly that operated a "Mendel's Garage", and asked him if he was associated with Bruce Mendel. He said no. When I saw the site above, I assumed it could not be the same guy, but now I see that he had texted me a picture of this very motor several months ago. Interesting. He still owes me the valve cover and injectors (maybe some other parts) that were supposed to come from the jumped chain 380sl engine that he was returning as a core. My friend who has the warehouse, and I'd given the 380slc to him (and helped pull the motor and then sold it for him to this guy) was pretty mad about not getting the full core back and had a spat. Never resolved. Kind of fell out of communication. Instead of giving him the $700 core charge back, I "sold" him a 107 zender lip, an AMG style steering wheel, several pieces of 107 trim, a trunk lock, and maybe some other things. He promised to send the missing items from the engine and trans he returned but never did. My friend just reminded me of the injectors and valve cover. I let it go, but this sure did jog my memory. I am kind of shocked at how nice these cars look.



Ironically, another one of his cars has a real AMG DOHC:



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Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
I sold a 380slc engine to a guy in Philly that operated a "Mendel's Garage", and asked him if he was associated with Bruce Mendel. He said no. When I saw the site above, I assumed it could not be the same guy, but now I see that he had texted me a picture of this very motor several months ago. Interesting. He still owes me the valve cover and injectors (maybe some other parts) that were supposed to come from the jumped chain 380sl engine that he was returning as a core. My friend who has the warehouse, and I'd given the 380slc to him (and helped pull the motor and then sold it for him to this guy) was pretty mad about not getting the full core back and had a spat. Never resolved. Kind of fell out of communication. Instead of giving him the $700 core charge back, I "sold" him a 107 zender lip, an AMG style steering wheel, several pieces of 107 trim, a trunk lock, and maybe some other things. He promised to send the missing items from the engine and trans he returned but never did. (Edit: he did send a driver with a box of some kind of random parts, but not everything it seems.) My friend just reminded me of the injectors and valve cover. I let it go, but this sure did jog my memory. I am kind of shocked at how nice these cars look.



Ironically, another one of his cars has a real AMG DOHC:



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Always Remembered, RIP
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Not me, sorry guys!

The name/location and types of cars he sells coincidences are pretty weird, though, I have to admit!

From what I know of him, he's pretty knowledgeable about these cars and has a decent reputation as a seller overall. He imports a lot of cars from Japan.

Bruce
 
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