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KishanShah - 12/22/2004 12:25 AM


this goes the same to ppl who own a crossfire , thinking they are in the same ball game as ppl who owns a real mercedes.
even though i dont have a very expensive MB , but i still have the real thing [:(!]
 

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Discussion Starter #22
maninblack - 12/26/2004 7:23 PM

KishanShah - 12/22/2004 12:25 AM


this goes the same to ppl who own a crossfire , thinking they are in the same ball game as ppl who owns a real mercedes.
even though i dont have a very expensive MB , but i still have the real thing [:(!]
my problem with the crossfire is that its overpriced IMO. I could get a used 32 for that much.
 

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Owning a Lexus is like owning a copy even though they might be good copies they are not the same to me as a Benz. Mercedes has a 110 years of history. It is easy for Lexus to just copy the designs of a Mercedes. Take a look at the SC400 with the folding hard top like the SLK and the SL. They copied the drop top design and stuck a small back seat in it and made it's price fall between the SLK and the SL and pick up all of the stray business from Mercedes.
 

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i hate to break it to you but Mercedes didn't exactly come up with the idea of a folding mechanical hardtop. they've been around since the 30's. Peugot had the first mass-produced one, the '57-9 Ford Skyliner had one. and even the Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder (yes, the Japanese) had one in three years before the SLK, in 1995.

http://retractable.free.fr/uk/index.html

plus, Mercedes outsourced engineering of the SLK top to Karmann, a body/convertible specialist. i'm not sure if Karmann did the engineering for the top mechanism on the SC. the japanese seem to prefer to work with ASC for their convertibles...

http://www.karmann.com/__C1256DF700512B86.nsf/html/en_7d5ab33f4a335a5ac1256dcf004bf3b0.html
 

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You are not breaking any news to anyone. Who said anything about Mercedes being first? Lexus already had an SC model but added the drop top to compete with the SLK after they saw the number of SLKs that were selling.
 

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using that logic you could say the slk is a copy of madza miata because mercedes saw how many small roadsters madza was selling and added the SLK to tap into market...

my point is, mercedes took an idea that already existed, refined it, made it work well and made it better. is it only copying when japanese carmakers do it?
 

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Absolutely not!! In fact, it would be foolish not to capitalize on such a thing. Look at X5 for example; the truck market started booming, so BMW decides it is about time we built our own and won some customers who wish they could drive a BMW SUV . . . oops, sorry the X5 is marketed as an SAV for Sport Activity Vehicle (I guess the small trunk space does not make for much utility, but that does not seem to bother BMW buyers). Anyway, there you have it! Look at Nissan and the 350Z - they resurrected the 300Z, it had been pulled from the US market since what, 1996 because the sports car market boom was waning and more and more people were buying sedans or trucks. 8 yrs later we have the 350Z and guess what it is a run away success. Heritage and exclusivity are great but after a while these can start to make companies get lazy and operate like monopolies to the point where they forget they have to continue to compete and improve their products. If anything, Lexus and all the other Japanese luxury sedans taught the Euro kings that you also need a great sound system in your car if you are going to sell it for mucho dinero - why skimp out on entertainment. And that also started a new trend. Now we have partnerships with Bose, Harmann Kardon, etc. I bet you guys my car that if the Japanese had to build our SLK's they would not equip a Bose system with such a crappy head unit(compared to what current technology there is); nor would they offer a cassette deck as recently as 2004 when humble Nissan Maximas are touting both in-dash cd players and cassette decks. All I am saying is love your brand but please, please stop looking at the rest of the pack through rose-colored glasses. If the worst thing you got against a car is that it has no soul, fine but don't call it a piece of garbage. Especially since you freely admit you would entertain the idea of someone paying you to drive "garbage".[8D]
 

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lilbaggie - 12/28/2004 12:43 PM

i hate to break it to you but Mercedes didn't exactly come up with the idea of a folding mechanical hardtop. they've been around since the 30's. Peugot had the first mass-produced one, the '57-9 Ford Skyliner had one. and even the Mitsubishi 3000GT Spyder (yes, the Japanese) had one in three years before the SLK, in 1995.
Right. And today, you can still go to any Peugot, Ford, or Mitsubishi dealer and buy a new folding hardtop car?
 

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Palmateer - 12/28/2004 8:18 PM

Right. And today, you can still go to any Peugot, Ford, or Mitsubishi dealer and buy a new folding hardtop car?
A Peugot dealer? No. Any Peugeot dealer? Yes.

 

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Discussion Starter #30
Katika - 12/28/2004 8:03 PM

Absolutely not!! In fact, it would be foolish not to capitalize on such a thing. Look at X5 for example; the truck market started booming, so BMW decides it is about time we built our own and won some customers who wish they could drive a BMW SUV . . . oops, sorry the X5 is marketed as an SAV for Sport Activity Vehicle (I guess the small trunk space does not make for much utility, but that does not seem to bother BMW buyers). Anyway, there you have it! Look at Nissan and the 350Z - they resurrected the 300Z, it had been pulled from the US market since what, 1996 because the sports car market boom was waning and more and more people were buying sedans or trucks. 8 yrs later we have the 350Z and guess what it is a run away success. Heritage and exclusivity are great but after a while these can start to make companies get lazy and operate like monopolies to the point where they forget they have to continue to compete and improve their products. If anything, Lexus and all the other Japanese luxury sedans taught the Euro kings that you also need a great sound system in your car if you are going to sell it for mucho dinero - why skimp out on entertainment. And that also started a new trend. Now we have partnerships with Bose, Harmann Kardon, etc. I bet you guys my car that if the Japanese had to build our SLK's they would not equip a Bose system with such a crappy head unit(compared to what current technology there is); nor would they offer a cassette deck as recently as 2004 when humble Nissan Maximas are touting both in-dash cd players and cassette decks. All I am saying is love your brand but please, please stop looking at the rest of the pack through rose-colored glasses. If the worst thing you got against a car is that it has no soul, fine but don't call it a piece of garbage. Especially since you freely admit you would entertain the idea of someone paying you to drive "garbage".[8D]
You make some good points, but have you ever driven a Toyota? Then, have you ever driven a Lexus? Theres nothing special about a Lexus other than the fact than people wanting to think they own a luxury car. What is special about the SLK? Exactly. The car has poor handling, cheap leather, and plastic, "wood," on the dash. When I mean it has no soul, I mean it is gilded.
 

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KishanShah - 12/28/2004 11:28 PM
You make some good points, but have you ever driven a Toyota? Then, have you ever driven a Lexus? Theres nothing special about a Lexus other than the fact than people wanting to think they own a luxury car.
Have you sat in a taxi cab in Germany? Have you driven the same car in the US? There is nothing special about a MB other than the fact than people wanting others to be impressed that they own a very expensive taxi cab. [:p]
 

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venk - 12/28/2004 8:49 PM

Palmateer - 12/28/2004 8:18 PM

Right. And today, you can still go to any Peugot, Ford, or Mitsubishi dealer and buy a new folding hardtop car?
A Peugot dealer? No. Any Peugeot dealer? Yes.

Sorry about the mis-spelling, I was quoting a previous post.

Ok venk, but the Model 206CC hardly shows any direct lineage from the 1936 Model 402. It looks more like a copy of the Mercedes design.
 

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both the car venk has pictured, the 206cc, and the 307cc have retractable hardtops and currently available... i think the upcoming Ford Focus is slated to have one. don't know if Mitsubishi is working on one. i think the Colt might but that might be Europe and Japan only...
 

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Discussion Starter #34
venk - 12/28/2004 11:44 PM

KishanShah - 12/28/2004 11:28 PM
You make some good points, but have you ever driven a Toyota? Then, have you ever driven a Lexus? Theres nothing special about a Lexus other than the fact than people wanting to think they own a luxury car.
Have you sat in a taxi cab in Germany? Have you driven the same car in the US? There is nothing special about a MB other than the fact than people wanting others to be impressed that they own a very expensive taxi cab. [:p]
Can't argue with that. Feisty tonight, aren't we?[:D]
 

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On a similar note do you guys know that the Acura in the US is sold as a Honda in Europe. I mean same styling, damn near everything. You just have to love the power of marketing and packaging[:)]

So, while we in the States drool over "luxury" models somewhere else in the world these same models are run-of-the-mill brands. The difference exists in engine size/displacement and interior materials (cloth vs leather options), they have a broader variety of engines available in Europe than in the US, not to mention diesel engines. I find it all rather fascinating how different products are marketed in different regions; I believe it says something about the people, the social culture/expectations, and the modus vivendi.

Off the car topic for a moment, look at the telecommunications infrastructure around the rest of the world compared to the US - we are light years behind regions such as Japan and European markets when it comes to telecom technology. Most of our progress is mired in legal wrangling and FCC micro-management . . . but I digress! Back to the topic of cars ... KishanShah, I agree I would not think of driving an LS400 around a bend at 80 mph but I would have no fear doing the same in a Benz, BMW or Audi. Lexus is a cruiser not a bahnstormer, and the closest attempt at challenging our remarkable automobiles is their IS300.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Katika - 12/29/2004 8:57 PM

and the closest attempt at challenging our remarkable automobiles is their IS300.
A riced out Corolla doesn't count[:D]

You are right about the telecom industry- I remember hearing things about DoCoMo 5 years ago that are popping up today- like GPRS.

I do wish we had more diesels. I am a diesel fanboy.
 

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I have to say this, but I bloody hate Lexus. Why?

1. The owners think they're god's gift to the world. They hold themselves so high on a pedestal, and force everyone else to bow down to them.

2. The car is absolute garbage. After driving a 96 Camry, then driving a Lexus, they feel very similar. THE CAR HAS NO SOUL!

3. Back in the mid 90's, people said, "If you buy a Lexus/Infinit/Acura etc, you were buying second best garbage since you couldn't afford a real german car." I used to hang around with my uncle in the early 90's and he had a 91 750iL and a 94 400E- beautiful cars[:)]


I still hold that statement true today since buying a hyped up Japanese equivalent isn't the same thing. When my parents bought their first Mercedes, it was an entire experience. You could feel the heritage of belonging to such a club.

I'm sorry if I offended any forum members who own a Jap "luxury" car. With all this being said, the only way I would drive a Lexus or such is:
I get a VERY good deal.
Someone pays me to drive it[8D]
Well Said I have the same TAKE!
 

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Bit of an epic dig about cars 16 years ago. These days to most younger people a car's soul is about as important as the soul of a refrigerator or dishwasher. Car advertising likes to liken modern cars to phones - which to many are more important.
Oh, for a '67 Pontiac GTO.😁
 
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