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Discussion Starter #1
Does anybody know what differences there are between these different 'models' of 404? Based on my research, it seems the 404.114s were the most common, but aside from that I'm not coming up with much. My first 404 is a 404.114 and I just bought a 404.113, so I'm trying to educate myself. I haven't spent a lot of time with the 404.113 yet (only a few days old to me) but haven't seen any major differences between the two.

Thanks in advance for the info!

Justin
 

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At the top of this forum you can find a thread called THE ULTIMATE MOG STICKY.

In that thread is a FAQ/DIY link.

Thats a great place to start searches of any kind. Work hard to keep it up todate to help out both Newbies and Oldies.

The RMM site is linked there as well as other links on identifing models
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I've been using the RMM site for 404 identification, I haven't run across much else to 'decode' 404 VINs.

Looks like, and this is consistent with everything I've read, only the 404.0xx models had the M130 engine (in the early 70s) while the 404.1xx models had the M180.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Well aware of the 'Ultimate Mog Sticky', hard to miss!

I've been through it many times, but have never run across a comprehensive explanation of the 404.xxx VIN. The RMM site has the most complete set of information I've found on this topic. Perhaps I'm blind! If anybody has seen something in the 'Sticky' that I'm missing or another reference for sorting this out, I would love to know!

Based on some photos I've looked at that had the first 6 digits of the VIN listed with the photo (404.1xx), I've noticed the following:
404.113s seem to have hard cabs
404.114s seem to have soft topped cabs
404.115s seem to have hard cabs and some type of fire equipment on the back

I have found a couple of exceptions, but swapped out body parts could be the reason or I'm completely off base!
 

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Thanx for checking out the sticky. Never can tell what newbie has or hasn't so I bring it up.

Im certainly NO EXPERT. Im not a stickler for detail like some. Here is how it seems to me from the years of reading I've done. Those with more exacting knowldege will pipe in and get more specific than I.

Seems lots of 404 Mogs were ordered by fleets with the group buying the fleet having specific needs and wants so the whole fleet was made to order. Largest "fleets orders" were militaries.

The other variations came in later years and were far fewer cause they went to smaller fleets. Again the fleets often were made to order.

Some Im guessing were also made on Spech with the goal of.. "build it and they will come". Fire models for example they might have upgraded a few times to encourage new expanding fire departments to keep buying Unimogs. This might be where the different model numbers come from. Those small upgrades to keep Municipalities buying the Unimog. "Buy the newl 404.115 for your cities Firepartment" "It's new and Improved..." etc etc.

That HUGE fleet purchase sells being "made to order" for the Military early on is why there is not much info out there on the Mog's for small fleets and show room models built later.

Seems to me the Manuals etc. were written for the big Military fleets and as they created new models for small fleet orders they updated the orginal Military manual a little bit to go along with these new models. Makes since. No need to rewrite a whole new manual. But.... due to this way of going about it there is not much specific information out there in these manuals on these upgrades. For some changes they may not have updated the manual at all? Figured fire departments etc own mechanics could figure it out?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Coach-

Thank you very much for the information.

I posted the same question to the 'other' forum, mogmsgexch, and received this detail this morning (Thanks MagMog):

C stands for convertible cabine
{....} stands for built quantity

Unimog Typ 404.111 C wheelbase 2670 mm 1955-1957 {1210}
Unimog Typ 404.112 C flatbed {185}
Unimog Typ 404.113 hardtop {8105}
Unimog Typ 404.114 C Standard german army flatbed {50321}
Unimog Typ 404.115 C chassis cab {2648}
Unimog Typ 404.117 C with OM 615 diesel eng. 60 HP {81}

the Unimog Typ 404.0xx with cabin like 406:

Unimog Typ 404.010 C {113}
Unimog Typ 404.011 hardtop {1151}
Unimog Typ 404.012 C {7}
Unimog Typ 404.013 hardtop {520}

wheelbase 2900 mm all, exept 404.111

engine M 180, 80-82 HP, 2,200 cm³ exept a few 404.113 with 92 HP,
a few 404.113 and all 404.012 and 404.014 with M 130 engine, 110 HP, 2,800 cm³
and the 404.117 C with OM 615 diesel eng. 60 HP for Portuguese army in Angola, none left known.
404.111 all for french army
most swiss 404.1 are 404.115, they got swiss canvas and flatbed


Worthy of the Sticky?
 

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There is a little dissagreement maybe on the material provided. Here is some points to ponder

...If you are going to put this in the FAQ or the archives, you might
want to first check on a few possible errors or typos.

1. The 404.115 = a hard top, or closed cab. Note: at least one
reference in the technical literature (probably in error) suggests
that they also appeared as soft tops, or open cab. I have yet to see
or hear of one. Anyone out there able to confirm this?

Footnote: The 404.113 and 404.114 did appear in both cab versions.
See cab types 404.510 (open cab - installed on 404.114-I, III, and V);
404.511 (open cab - installed on 404.113); 404.520 (closed cab -
installed on 404.113, 404.114-II, and 404.115); 404.521 (closed cab -
installed on 404.114-II and 404.115).

2. The original Swiss (military) UNIMOG was essentially of the
404.114 production code, an open cab troop carrier, rather than the
404.115 hard top.

3. I don't think there were any 1957 404.111 types. (1955 and 1956
only.) Anyone able to confirm a 1957 short wheel base 404? Maybe our
list member, Justus, can cite literature referencing a 1957 404.111.
I'd be interested in verifying its existence.

Otherwise, at quick glance, looks pretty good and complete for those
UNIMOG types. Vielen Dank Justus!

Prost UNIMOG!

Jim Ince, EuroTech Services International
Mercedes-Benz Trucks, Off-Road Vehicles and Restorations
Huge Parts Inventory, Implements, Tires, Special Tools, Technical Literature
Wholesale / Retail
(541) 837-3636 Fax: (541) 837-3737
EUROTECH SERVICES INTERNATIONAL, UNIMOG, Celebrating 30 Years of UNIMOG SUPPORT
[email protected]
 

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I was really enjoying this model difference information and clicked on the provided link, but it is no longer valid. Any other information on the different models out there?
 

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Yes in fact there is some additional information.

How about the entire baumuster chart for the unimog line? This is from a number of different sources with notes and some clarifications. I can't say it is complete nor will I claim it to be 100% accurate becasue this being unimog, the rules flexible and subject to change.
 

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very interesting baumeister list and good value.

I seem to recall that engine type and engine sales designation is not always the same thing but often refers to the same building block with just minor variations - hence 353 engine type is most likely a OM352 as we generally know it.
Interesting to see then that the 352/353 varies from a nominal 5675ccm down to 4580ccm (U70T) - what did they do, block off a cylinder or two ?

As usual - MaBenz sure knows how to confuse matters !
 

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PS is Pferdestärke which is roughly equivalent to horsepower but as with all things DIN there are some kinks in the way in which they measure. PS to be specific can best be defined as "metric horsepower" and is taken off the crankshaft much like the old SAE Gross HP.

1 Metric HP = 1 PS = (75kg/1m)/1s. That is to say the engine develops 1PS when it lifts a 75 kilo mass 1 meter per second against gravity.

The hitch comes with defining how many watts are developed. 1 SAE HP = 745.6w, 1 Metric HP = 735.4w. The difference is about 1.3% lower. The deviation comes from round offs and flipping around of units which is a problem with HP ratings as there is no standard horse as Watt quickly discovered. Engine torque to me is a much more useful and telling number becasue you can always extrapolate torque over time which yeilds a number that looks very similar to HP.

As for the baumuster, MB data starts to make some sense when you draw it all out into charts and such but MB in general and Unimog in specific is very much like an onion; you think you have a rule sorted out and so peel off that layer only to find another layer below it and soon enough you are crying.
 

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The displacement difference between the OM352.903 and OM352.919 is only 1095cc which is only 182cc per cylinder and could reflect minor changes in bore & stroke as well as domed versus cupped pistons etc. This opens up the Pandora's box of MB engine specifications and the head scratchers of why did they do this or that. The best answer that we can all come back to is engines were designed for specific output, consumption and efficiency goals and in some cases these were tailored to customers requirements.
 

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You are right ! I think they may have been having fun too !
Shorter stroke, domed piston = higher revs ! There is a thought !
 
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