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Discussion Starter #1

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CH4S Admin , Outstanding Contributor
1985 500SEC, 1991 190E 2.6.
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just had a laugh readin the thread about hammers from pyro la,
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/1302258-4-valve-cylinder-heads-560-sel.html

did he ever come up with the pics of his super garage?

on a side note, for those who dont know about these cars, jonos list actually says hammer against two cars that aint 5.0 versions, so no wonder newbies get all crossed up!

peace
Click on the user name next to his post for the profile. It shows no log in since April 2010.
Before making statements, perhaps you should google W124 AMG hammer..

Jono's are 6.0 32 valve quad cam.
 

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how does my sig cross people up?? The only cars I refer to as Hammer's are my W124's that are equipped w/ DOHC M117's.
If I wanted to fiddle w/ people's mind on the topic I would call All my DOHC M117 cars Hammers as some choose to.

By your rationale is it only a Hammer if it's a 5.0L DOHC M117..??

Jonathan
 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
dont start on me...

i am not bringing into question what jono has, or knows, or anything like that, i was just pointing out that the information in that thread, and other threads ive read where newbies ask you guys questions, contain condescending and conflicting answers.

then you wonder why they then get angry, for example, you all slagged one guy off for asking about engine configurations, and one of you said the term 'hammer' was only used to identify the 5.0l engine in a 124. on more than one occasion, then jono has two 'hammer' vehicles listed in his sig, that are NOT 5.0l in a 124.

i cant be botherd to argue this over and over, i was just making a point that newbies need love like everybody else, now go pick on someone else because i aint saying its only 5.0 in a 124, its you lot have said it in the past wich then confuses people, as acknowledged;

how does my sig cross people up?? The only cars I refer to as Hammer's are my W124's that are equipped w/ DOHC M117's.
If I wanted to fiddle w/ people's mind on the topic I would call All my DOHC M117 cars Hammers as some choose to.

By your rationale is it only a Hammer if it's a 5.0L DOHC M117..??

Jonathan
and, now your startin to piss me off with your condesending attitudes, go read the thread where you all ganged up on the pyro la guy.

read some of the 'expert' posts, especially, for example, post 25, and the post 32. and the post 44

you may gain an understanding of my initial, almost throw away comment, wich was along the lines of 'no wonder people get confused'.

strangly, no one jumped on tailbir and said whoa, hold on, and then explained the 'hammer' reasoning THEY use.

mabe you should google ' read and understand what people may mean, before jumping to defend each other'

and now, just to annoy YOU i reckon talibir and others are probably right, and it is only the 5.0 cars that were called hammer, now go throw your toys out you prams..
 

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how does my sig cross people up?? The only cars I refer to as Hammer's are my W124's that are equipped w/ DOHC M117's.
If I wanted to fiddle w/ people's mind on the topic I would call All my DOHC M117 cars Hammers as some choose to.

By your rationale is it only a Hammer if it's a 5.0L DOHC M117..??

Jonathan
Jono

You are so correct.
What people fail to grasp is that pre-merger AMG built to the customers specification.
What they did in Germany was oft times different then the North American builds.

The initial Hammer USA build by Westmont was a 5.6L DOHC ( December 1986 Road & Track road test ).
The German cars were built on a 230E platform.
Not available in the USA so the 300E was used.
Right there a great deal of difference in the base specification.

The 1987 AMG Central ( Westmont ) catalogue clearly shows on the inner cover the red W124 with 6.0L trunk badge.

And yes, the 124 variants with any displacement 32V DOHC were the only builds that were referred to as "Hammer"

The SOHC 124 builds were referred to by the motoring press as "Mallets".

Difficult to make a claim that AMG had any consistency in their builds...
AMG was a tuner and it was all done "ala carte".

Ed A.
 

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:big laugh:
dont start on me...

i am not bringing into question what jono has, or knows, or anything like that, i was just pointing out that the information in that thread, and other threads ive read where newbies ask you guys questions, contain condescending and conflicting answers.

then you wonder why they then get angry, for example, you all slagged one guy off for asking about engine configurations, and one of you said the term 'hammer' was only used to identify the 5.0l engine in a 124. on more than one occasion, then jono has two 'hammer' vehicles listed in his sig, that are NOT 5.0l in a 124.

i cant be botherd to argue this over and over, i was just making a point that newbies need love like everybody else, now go pick on someone else because i aint saying its only 5.0 in a 124, its you lot have said it in the past wich then confuses people, as acknowledged;



and, now your startin to piss me off with your condesending attitudes, go read the thread where you all ganged up on the pyro la guy.

read some of the 'expert' posts, especially, for example, post 25, and the post 32. and the post 42

you may gain an understanding of my initial, almost throw away comment, wich was along the lines of 'no wonder people get confused'.

strangly, no one jumped on tailbir and said whoa, hold on, and then explained the 'hammer' reasoning THEY use.

mabe you should google ' read and understand what people may mean, before jumping to defend each other'

and now, just to annoy YOU i reckon talibir and others are probably right, and it is only the 5.0 cars that were called hammer, now go throw your toys out you prams..
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
go read the thread where you all ganged up on the pyro la guy.

read some of the 'expert' posts, especially, for example, post 25, and the post 32. and the post 44
you guys really are missing the point, i was only making a throw away comment about how newbies can get confused.

rather than carrying this on, go read the actual numbered posts in the 'pyro la thread' that i have highlighted above.

then use a little bit of brain power, and my comment will become clear to all of you. read those posts, then read jonos list, and a glaring inconsistancy will be obvious to all of you.


in fact i have copied the first one and will reprint it hear, to save you all the trouble, this is word for word post 25, note the use of 'Read the AMG literature and it will prove the point.' as one of the sentences, then read jonos list of cars...

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyro_la
i believe you are incorect. the hammer came in 3 motor varients. is was possible to get it in a 5, 5.6, and a 6.0 litre versions the most with 375 hp. the 3 motors were all modified w126 560 sel/sec motors.

INCORRECT !

The DOHC M117 32V engines came in 4 displacements :

5.0
5.4
5.6
6.0

But ONLY the 5.0 DOHC engine PLANTED in the w124 was ever referred to as the Hammer.

Read the AMG literature and it will prove the point.

The 5.4, 5.6 and 6.0 variants were only ever referred to as the DOHC M117's.....NEVER hammers.

You do indeed have a lot to learn.....

talbir
__________________
Mercedes w124 500E 1993 Black 040
Mercedes w124 500E 1993 Spruce Green
Mercedes AMG 560SEC 1988
Mercedes AMG DOHC M117 w126 AMG Widebody SEC 1985
Mercedes 560SE Carat Duchatelet 1987
Mercedes w126 SEL Brabus
Mercedes w124 T Brabus
Porsche 911 Turbo SE Slantnose 1986
Mercedes 560E - w124 5.6 DOHC 360bhp by Stratton
Ferrari 328 GTS Quattrovalvole 1986 Koenig Widebody
Porsche 928 S4 by Strosek, Supercharged 550bhp
Mercedes 190E AMG Widebody
Mercedes SEC by Gemballa 6.9


hear is post 32;, again word for word;

Told you Talbir had the info, I read that article you posted pyro and they writer is just using the term "Hammer of all Hammers", refering to to the 6.0 version, and to what he called all done up W124's. He is incorrect however in using that term because all proper evidince (i.e. articles of the time and AMG litirature) points to the original and only real hammer being the 5.0 DOHC. This was back in the day when its 60-120 times were being compared to and beating the likes of the 911 and Countach.
I also would like to see some of your rides, although Im not doubting you but once youve talked the talk on this forum...
Heres a T/T M119

hears post 44

I think most people are only aware and only accept the 5.0 DOHC version as the Hammer, if there was subsequent engine displacement increases after the 5.0 litre version then I guess there was, but for my 2 cents there is only one Hammer and thats the 5.0 DOHC. Look forward to seeing your cars (not being sarcastic) sounds like quite a line up.
__________________
"500"sel - M117.968 --> M119.960 conversion, standalone LinkPlus ECU (linkecu.com) tuned to ~260kw, full dual 2.25" mandrel bend exhaust, AMG 2nd Gen full body kit & interior mods, Bilstein HD's and custom springs. 17" SSR wheels 8.5J front 9.5J rear (235, 255 tyres)

560sec - I hate sec's

You're unique, just like everyone else.


i don't actually care what you all call your cars...

i probably shouldnt have put the last paragraph into my long post above, but i did bite and it annoyed me how people want to try to belittle people, with out actually reading and understanding what they said.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
is English your first language? read all the writing, then try to understand it.

talibirs point, which i neither agree or disagree with is that all of those articles are magazine articles, not official literature.
 

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is English your first language? read all the writing, then try to understand it.
Just FYI - maybe some of the difficulty in understanding your posts arises from your "grammar-in-training." In your post you use the word "hear" instead of "here" and the word "hears" instead of "here's."

In English, the word "hear" refers to what your ear does. It may be that the word "here" would have better expressed what you were trying to say. Likewise, "hears," refers to the auditory.

Correct usage of the apostrophe ("here's" instead of "hears" and "Talbir's" instead of "talibirs") may also go far towards making your posts more effective. You should always try to spell names properly too.

Lastly, learning how to properly display quotes in your posts may help.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
no, i dont give a toss what you call an engine.

my point was that for newcomers, there is a lot of conflicting information and points of view.

that particular thread contained a lot of conflicting info, interestingly, with that particular newbie arguing the majority view against a well respected expert, who may or may not be correct in his understanding (he is, however, rarely wrong) and being backed up on the point by two other experienced guys, and everyone else chimed in with negativity towards the OP.

i was also hinting at all of us trying to get along, and maybe giving newbies a easier time, go figure with the sh1t storm that it caused.

every one then didnt bother reading the posts, or thinking i may actually mean something different to what they thought i meant, or seeing what i meant, but pointing out stuff that was irrelevant to my comment.

for instance the stupid point about hear, or ere, or here, doesnt change the meaning of what i was saying, or an apostrophe hear, or there (thier) ie spelling... non of it actually matters, and just smacks of snobbery or eliteism when it is mentioned

and the 'grammor' point, pleeze, that gets wheeled out every time there is a conflict, often by someone trying to get the high ground, when it duzunt(sic) matter how my 'grammer' and spelling is on an internet forum.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
at last a constructive post, asking a question, well, this just wont do.

you will get flamed but first i need to address the other point in the pointless post above re grammer and spellink.


before lecturing people on stuff that doesnt matter, do some research, try finding out the differance between using single quotes, thus '....' and double quotes, thus "...", i wasnt speaking any of my post out load for someone else to write for me, so didnt use "..."

also apostrophe usage, wtf would i bother using them on ere? its a discussion forum, not a English exam. see I used capital letters', happy now dad?
 

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is English your first language?

just smacks of snobbery or eliteism when it is mentioned

and the 'grammor' point, pleeze, that gets wheeled out every time there is a conflict, often by someone trying to get the high ground, when it duzunt(sic) matter how my 'grammer' and spelling is on an internet forum.
I agree.
 

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Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
OK, so there is no more question on the table. I'd like to ask what engines can be called hammer or not. My guess it will come down to the 4 valve units in various displacements, but that is just a guess. I found this site, it has some interesting AMG stuff - probably not new to the regulars here, but I like the torque curves :) lots of eye candy and nice summary information

The first link looks to be scans of actual AMG literature.

the second link uses hammer for the 1987 6.0 4V

AMG-Classics

AMG-Classics

i took a quick look at the the second link, wich does not seem to be official literature, it is a list of cars for sale, but wow, there is a widebody with the same kit as mine on there, with the biggest engine of the lot, i want it soooooo much

the first link, wich does seem to be official literature, doesnt use hammer anywhere, but also doesn't have a 124 bodied car on show.

fwiw, my own personal thought was that the term hammer was not an official term, i thought it was coined by an american magazine article, and then everyone started using it as they chose to understand it, wich is what one of jhonos' remarks could have been conceived to mean, it was just his tone that i over reacted to.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
low fat, or low brow? you decide,

i genuinely thought it must be a non english as first language poster, because he completely ignored the

'go read the numbered posts from the other thread, and think what i meant'

part of this thread, and started posting magazine articles that all clearly stated every engine size as hammers, which wasnt the point.
 

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low fat, or low brow? you decide,

i genuinely thought it must be a non english as first language poster, because he completely ignored the

'go read the numbered posts from the other thread, and think what i meant'

part of this thread, and started posting magazine articles that all clearly stated every engine size as hammers, which wasnt the point.
You started a pointless thread asking about pyro who hasn't posted since April 2010.
The information is available to anyone who bothers to look it up.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
nar m8, me a chav from the slums,
 

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Nick - you're welcome here, just keep our discussions on the straight and narrow. This board can be unforgiving to boasters and fools but members here go to great lengths to help each other out.

Hammer was originated in a magazine article but the name stuck and quickly adopted by AMG

Tell us more about your Stratton...
 

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, my own personal thought was that the term hammer was not an official term, i thought it was coined by an american magazine article, and then everyone started using it as they chose to understand it,
That was my understanding of the term also
Just like "Gullwing" for the origional 300sl and "beetle" for the volkswagen
Most people IMO would accept the use of the term hammer for any AMG built V8 W124
Excluding of cause the factory 500e mb cars built in collusion with porsche..
But im certainly no expert in W124s......
 

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the first link, wich does seem to be official literature, doesnt use hammer anywhere, but also doesn't have a 124 bodied car on show.

fwiw, my own personal thought was that the term hammer was not an official term, i thought it was coined by an american magazine article, and then everyone started using it as they chose to understand it, wich is what one of jhonos' remarks could have been conceived to mean, it was just his tone that i over reacted to.
Young Nick

Yes "Hammer" became an official term
I attach three pages from the 1987 AMG Central ( Westmont USA ) brochure.
The term was coined in 1986 by the USA motoring press and it stuck.

You might want to get a copy of the August 2007 Mercedes Enthusiast which has an article on Martin Traynor's ( Vlad) "Hammer" which was one of two RHD cars from Stratton's.
The other RHD car was Jeff Lynne of ELO fame and was written off.

There are many comments in the article from Hartmut Feyhl about the concept in 1984 of using the M117 in the 124.
The engine evolved from 5.0L, 5.2L, 5,4L, 5.5L, 5.6L and finally 6.0L.

So young man, don't get upset by any AMG controversy.
When no records exist the history of any build must be pieced together !
 

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