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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #1
Figured it was time to break this out to a new thread. And maybe get some sub-topics going underneath.

-Dave
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #2
Torque question

If all goes as planned, I'm going to use the manual transmission from my 280GE behind the turbodiesel. I should be going somewhat in the right direction since the trans from the 280GE is beefier than the one in the 300GD. If it doesn't hold up I'll have to do something different later, but unless something else comes up, I plan to go this way to start.

My question is this. Does anyone have a torque vs. RPM curve for the 617.950 (or .951 for that matter) 3 liter turbodiesel engine? I have the engine service manuals and it's not in the manuals I have. I didn't have any luck in a few Google tries either. If anyone can supply or point me to a torque curve for this motor I'd like to have it for reference.

Thanks!

-Dave
 

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96 G300DT
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2,070 Posts
SVO & 270CDI turbo swap

I'll bite.

I guess that you are planning on implanting an OM617A. It sounds like an excellent choice.

I'm doing some research on the SVO/WVO front. Unfortunately there isn't much WVO available in the neighborhood. The DAVCO filter/heater seems like a great all-in-one solution. Though it gets cold enough in your area that you might need to heat (and insulate) the entire fuel plumbing.

The other modification I think about occasionally is replacing the stock turbo with one from a 270CDI. That turbo has the variable venturi. With some engineering this would provide full boost from just off idle. This ought to improve driveability, especially at high altitude. I've also heard that it reduces back pressure at full throttle.
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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3,504 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Like "Honeymoon in Vegas"

Nick Cage says at one point...." That just doesn't help me at all" [:)]

I'm not installing a normally aspirated engine. I need the numbers from the turbodiesel if anyone has them. And a curve would be most helpful, but a "peak @ RPM" number would be a start.

-Dave
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #6
RE: SVO & 270CDI turbo swap

The SVO is definitely a "down the road" thing for me right now. I'm concentrating on doing the best job I can with the turbodiesel install for now. But the attraction is definitely there. You're right, I'd need to do some heating of the veg oil and lines, but the Neoteric guys have that stuff figured out. Heck, they started out serving these systems up to folks in northern Alberta and BC. When the time comes, I'm sure Craig will set me up right. The Neoteric centrifugal pre-filter with integral element post-filtering seems like a really bomb-proof way to go.

270 CDI turbo might be nice, as long as the injector pump would keep up. The one on the 3 liter turbodiesel should be happy enough though, since it's dead simple and only reacts to manifold pressure....does it figure in RPM too??? I'd have to review the books. But yeah, that turbo might be a fun thing if the stock turbo isn't enough. We'll see....

-Dave
 

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1982 300gd
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57 Posts
RE: sub-topics

Besides the turbo, I don't believe there is much difference between the turbo and non. If there is please educate me.
The turbo kicks in only when you floor it.
In most driving situations your not using the turbo and you'd better hope it doesn't kick in on a rough trail or control becomes a issue followed by body work.
I guess after a turbo motor blew and sucked the oil out of a engine my views changed on why I needed to get where I was going so fast. The "Benz" knew what he was doing when he began . Simple is better
 

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Peak is 250NM at 2400 rpm (and 125hp at 4350rpm)
I have no idea where to find a curve...
Maybe peaple here have dynoed their car?

matteus
 

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2016 G550 & 2016 350 GLE
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Dave,
Is that 617 out of a 87 300 DT?
The reason I ask is that I had an 87 for 17 years and I may still have some info somewhere on it. But before I spend time looking for it, I need to know the year.
There is some info on these diesels in the car forums. Also there is one web site that is hosted by a guy that is an expert on those engines. I was impressed by his knowledge.
 

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'82 300 GD Cab STT ('02 G270CDi/'85 300 GD SWB)
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473 Posts
An engine out of an 87 300 TD would be a OM603 with 6 cylinders, the OM617A is 5 cyl and was made for civilian use in W123 and W126 untill 1985.
 

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'82 300 GD Cab STT ('02 G270CDi/'85 300 GD SWB)
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473 Posts
RE: Torque question

Dave, do you know in which way the 4-speed 280 GE trans (711.1) is beefier than the other 4-speed (711.2)? I believed the higher gear ratios were the only difference.
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #12
Trans question

Iver460 - 2/25/2005 5:16 PM

Dave, do you know in which way the 4-speed 280 GE trans (711.1) is beefier than the other 4-speed (711.2)? I believed the higher gear ratios were the only difference.
All internal components of the 280's trans are physically larger, including the overall length of the case being longer. I once thought I'd swap the trans in my 280 for a spare one I had out of a 230GE. Since the 230's trans was the same as the 300GD, I thought it would be built to take high torque, but it turned out that the 300GD's OM617 had lower peak torque than the 280GE's M110, and after looking at diagrams of the two transmissions, I decided the slightly nicer gear spacing of the other trans was not worth the risk of using the trans designed for lower torque motor.

Frankly I'm not certain about using this trans with the 617.950, but it's what I have, so I'll give it a go, figuring it's gotta be better than the more common combination of the 617A with the trans from the 300GD. I guess I'll find out....synthetic lubes are my friend. [:)]

All things considered I think a 711.117 is probably in my future somewhere to let the diesel spin a little slower at highway speeds...but that's for another time.

-Dave
 

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1987 280 GD TURBO
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132 Posts
hello hipine
good choice of engine, if you use manual trans. you will have to rebalance flywheel. glow indicator
light bulb is already in dash, just need wire.
ignition switch from sedan will not directly fit but can be modified, or use cam and valve in G switch.
engine must positiond properly for sedan oil pan
to clear front diff.
done this conversion a few times, glad to help
if i can. see my previous posts on this subject
or call 450 227 8972.
cheers Warren.
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #14
RE: sub-topics

aggragated - 2/25/2005 4:42 PM

Besides the turbo, I don't believe there is much difference between the turbo and non. If there is please educate me.
The turbo kicks in only when you floor it.
In most driving situations your not using the turbo and you'd better hope it doesn't kick in on a rough trail or control becomes a issue followed by body work.
I guess after a turbo motor blew and sucked the oil out of a engine my views changed on why I needed to get where I was going so fast. The "Benz" knew what he was doing when he began . Simple is better
There are a bunch of differences between the 617 and 617A motors. Most important is probably the spray oiling of the pistons to dissipate heat induced by the turbo. That extra 100 Nm of torque doesn't come for free after all. There are also some nice changes to the preignition chambers to make them more robust and ease cold starts. The rest of the changes (I have the product intro manual that details a hundred or so pages of them) are pretty inconsequential.

All the decent OM617A's I've driven were fully on the turbo between 1 and 2,000 RPM, having nothing to do with whether the accelerator was floored or not, and the turbo was making it's full contribution during most ALL driving conditions. If off-road control becomes an issue, it's not too tough to arange to open the waste gate and defeat the turbo entirely for that use if so desired. I'll see how it goes and modify as necessary. And as far as "...a turbo motor blew and sucked the oil out of a engine..." the OM617A sure doesn't have a reputation for that kind of behavior. I'll go with the motor's reputation and my ability to properly drive and maintain it, and see where it takes me. But of course, that's the beauty of the great wide world. Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

All the best,

-Dave
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #15
Motor position

warren t - 2/25/2005 6:07 PM
....you will have to rebalance flywheel.....
Have you used a "zero balance" replacement part flywheel in any of your conversions? One fellow here who puts these motors in Mogs a lot says it's fine to slap the zero balance flywheel on a motor that came with an auto box. I have some conflicting feelings.
Cons - Mogs don't run many miles, so how much experience does he really have, even if he's done ten of these swaps in those trucks
Pros - The workshop manual says that a zero balance CRANKSHAFT can be used if that needs replacing, and that pistons and rods come as matched sets (confirmed by rebuilder friends of mine who've measured), so with the only thing left being the flywheel, it should be okay to go with a zero-balanced unit there.

Since I'm swapping the oil pan to the strengthened one from the later 617.951 motor (motor I'm using is non-egr 617.950 motor), I'll be looking at the crank anyway, so I might just have it out for balancing, replace the timing and oil pump chains while I'm at it, and then be confident in the use of the zero balance flywheel. Welcome your thoughts though.


....engine must positiond properly for sedan oil pan
to clear front diff....
Can this be done with a certain part number motor mount bracket on the engine or does it require cutting and re-welding the chassis motor mounts, or manufacturing bespoke engine brackets? If chassis mods are required, I'd sooner blister the oil pan to clear the pumpkin. If you'd like to sell me some brackets for repositioning motor mounts, I'm listening.[:)]

Thanks a million for your offer of help. I'm sure I'll tap in eventually.

-Dave

PS - Love your fair city. I spent some time as a manufacturing engineer supporting the F-car plant at Ste. Therese in the 90s and couldn't get enough of Montreal. The Forum was already closed when I was there, but even at the Molson Centre, hearing the anthem in person, sung in French....yeesh, it still sends chills up my spine just thinking of it. [:)]
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks for the tip to check other forums. If you have a link to that expert's site, I'd love to check it out. The engine I'm using is a 617.950, out of a '79 300SD (116 chassis sedan).

-Dave
 

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1987 280 GD TURBO
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engine brackets were fabricated from steel pieces
using 300GD support brackets as models but with
slotted holes to allow moving engine forward 1 inch.
this is necessary to allow diff. to clear not only
steel but also aluminum part of oil pan.
engine will sit vertical and centered.
when automatic 110 engine leans to left, is this
the case with manual trans....

Glad to hear you know montreal, if you care to visit
it would be a great pleasure to receive you
at our home in ST-SAUVEUR wich is a resort town
just 40 kilometers from ST-THERESE.
we could talk G-WAGONS for hours!
THINK VACATION
CHEERS WARREN
 

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1980 LWB 280GE
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Discussion Starter #18
warren t - 2/25/2005 9:19 PM
....when automatic 110 engine leans to left, is this
the case with manual trans....
Not as far as I can tell. Mine seems to be level across the cam cover. Might be tipped up at the front a bit, but I'm not sure if that's real or just an illusion of the engine bay.

-Dave
 
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