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2002 ML320; 2006 S350;2016 GLC 300
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Discussion Starter #1
Error code B1439 (Central locking secure time to long. air capacity to high)

My pump runs (almost continuously) when key is in position #2 and it also runs for a few minutes after the car starts. I checked each of the 6 yellow vacuum lines and they all hold suction. Here's a picture of what the pump looks like:



Does anyone know what the clear hose in the upper right is used for?

Also, nothing is connected to the connector immediately below the clear hose (as in the picture). Does anyone know what that port is used for? There is no connector on the bottom right port (although that connector is totally blocked and doesn't look like it can be used for anything).

I read somewhere that in addition to the door/rear/gas locking, the pump is used to adjust the air conditioning baffles when the car is not running. Can someone confirm what else the pump is used for?

Any diagnostic ideas?

thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thanks, Raymond! A similar diagram is in EPC, but it doesn't detail the port usage. Port "F" says it is a Pneumatic connector, manifold vacuum assist. Is this the same vacuum that is used for the vacuum lines under the hood (MAF, intake, etc)? If so, this may be the source of my P0170 and P0173 issues?! I replaced the MAF, checked for vacuum line leaks under the hood and couldn't find anything. Any thoughts? Thanks again!

Update to this post: It appears that this is NOT the same vacuum line used under the hood (MAF, intake, etc). It seems that in addition to the doors/trunk/fuel lid, the climate control vents are sometimes controlled by this vacuum pump.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I rechecked all the vacuum lines using a hand held pump and all lines keep constant pressure (except for the fuel lid vacuum line which seems to have a slow leak at the fuel lid flap actuator). The fuel lid vacuum line itself is okay since no leaks appeared using the hand pump and closing the other end of the line). But, that's okay since the fuel lid latch does open and close as it is supposed to.

When the ignition key is in position #2, the pump make a "grrrrrrr" noise for 2-3 seconds...stops for a second...and then repeats the cycle. It does that for several minutes. During this cycle, I disconnected the MVA line and I heard the air come out of the line and then the pump's compressor kicked in. So, I'm thinking that line is okay. More importantly, the compressor kicked in. So, I'm wondering what is the "grrrrrr" noise? Are these pumps known to be a common failure component?

If all lines do not have leaks, what could the problem be?

thanks!
 

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2001 E320 - Brilliant Silver/Ash: 107,000+
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These pumps do fail but as to your questions, I don't remember reading many posts where this has happened. If you're sure the PSE pump is making the "grrr" I'd probably replace it.
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
Attached is a sound file of the issue. It has an .mp3 file extension but it is really a .3GA file. Still works with MS Media Player.

PSE pump noise

After the 6th iteration of the "grrrr", I unplug the MVA line. You can hear the air hiss out of the line and then the compressor kicks in. After several seconds, I reconnect the MVA line and you hear the grrr sound all over again.

I notice the grrr sound on several occasions. I'm sure it is supposed to do it at these times:
a) When initially driving the car and the car auto-locks the doors (one grrr sound)
b) When I turn on the air conditioner with the engine running (one grrr sound)
c) Manually locking or unlocking the doors (one grrr sound)

I just don't know why the "grrr" sound continuously happens when:
a) The key is in position #2 (engine not running). Once I start the car, the grrr stops. That seems to tell me that maybe it's an air vent related issue (because a separate compressor kicks in and controls the vacuum once the car starts, right?).
b) The engine is running and it randomly makes the sound (sometimes several iterations in a row)

I don't know the pump logic or what drives the pump. Maybe:
a) something is telling the pump to vacuum the lines. This could mean a problem somewhere else. Maybe a bad logic board or stuck vent.
b) the pump isn't recieving a command to stop the vacuum process.
c) something internal to the pump is not properly working.

I checked the air vents and they seem to open/close properly except for one issue. The front facing vents do not fully closed when the vent flow icons (on the climate control display) are pointing toward the windshield and/or toward the feet. Also, there isn't much of a front air flow volume change when the icon is pointing twoard the feet vs. when the icon is pointing to both the feet and the front. Is this the normal operation of the front facing vents with other E320 cars?

Only when the climate control is in the "AUTO" mode are the front facing vents fully open.
 

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93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
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Tod,

Grrr sound may be the armature has worn out on the motor, or permanent magnet fell off the walls of motor.

The motors used on these vane pumps are very cheap DC brushed motors, and many substitute motors could be used from electronic surplus stores will work fine. Many surplus places exist across the US. Here are two that come to my mind:

Jameco Electronics - Electronic Components Distributor

DC Motors-The Electronic Goldmine

Here is thread on W140 PSE

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1585361-diy-pse-pump-post-mortem-resurrection.html

On these pumps, the vanes start to wear-out, and the dust needs to be cleaned with rubbing alcohol and some swabs, or it may be a diaphragm pump will have a silicon membrane and needs to cleaned with alcohol to get better suction. I've not repaired this pump on the W210, but I have fixed the one on my W140. For my day job for 15yrs I designed toxic gas detection systems, and worked with many types of vacuum pumps, repaired them too.

I think it is motor related, or the possibility of the on board relay that requires the contacts to be cleaned with 400grit sand paper, but some times the relay may need to be un-soldered to remove the relay case-But that is what i would do to fix the problem because to pay 700 bucks(the case of the W140) for the pump for a cheap five dollar DC brushed motor does not make sense.

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Now I really screwed up! Last night I took the pump apart (like I knew what I was doing). It was simple enough. I didn't see anything that looked broken, out of place, burnt, etc. I put it back together and it didn't work at all. I moved it around and it made a few small noises like the motor was trying to run. That was it!

I took it apart again and the motor was super hot. I must have fried it. Surrounding the motor is a metal sleeve. Around the metal sleeve is a large white plastic enclosure (see picture #1 and #2). That enclosure (and the motor) sits on top of a metal base. When I removed that white enclosure, I broke off 3 (out of 4) tabs that apparently keep it in place (since they slide under the motor itself). I may be able to get around that issue. Not sure. There doesn't seem to be a way to get the motor off the metal base (but apparently it was done on the W140). It would also be nice to replace the entire structure (motor, metal sleeve, white enclosure, metal base, rubber "shock" absorbers, and everything under the metal base as well), but I doubt there is a replacement part for that. Right now I'm most interested in replacing the motor.

Mava, would you think that the motor from the w140 is the same as this motor? It looks similar. There are no specs or writing on the motor. The design of this pump sub-system is different from the one you have in your link.

any thoughts? thanks! todd




 

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Todd,

The motor is either stalled, or the motor is shorted out.

I will look at my PSE pump, but where is this thing located on the car?

Martin
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I took it back out, tore it down, and put it back together. It's working now the way it was before the first first tear down. I may have incorrectly put it back together the first time. I'll have to check out the noise pattern again over the next day or so. The pump is under the rear passenger seat - next to the battery - enclosed in a foam container. I'm wondering what noises other pumps make. Maybe this is normal, but I doubt it given that after I turn the key to position #2 (engine not running), it makes the noise that I posted earlier. If you could check out your noise pattern as well, that would be appreciated!

thanks, todd.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
I did a lot of testing over the past few days. Once I have this behind me, I'm going to write up my findings on the PSE pump, MVA and air vent control system. I'm sure it will be useful information for someone else since I couldn't find any documentation on any of this.

The PSE pump does vacuum (suck) and create pressure (blow) as needed. However, the pump vacuum does not hold vacuum on the SRU port (Manifold Vacuum Assist).

With the ignition key in position #2, the PSE pump vacuums to 18psi and stops. Within a second, the pressure drops down to 13 psi and the vacuum kicks in again until reaching 18psi. Then the cycle starts all over again. This is why my pump is constantly running. I verified that none of the vacuum lines are not broken. To isolate the issue, I used a hand-held migtyvac. I was able to connect directly to the SRU port and came up with the same results.

Once I start the car engine, the manifold intake contributes to the vacuum pressure and brings it to a near constant 17psi. The PSE stops the vaccum because the pressure is within normal range. This is why the pump stops after I start the car.

My assumption is that the PSE pump should hold the vacuum on the SRU line. Since it doesn't, I'm assuming that something in the pump is not working. Also, from what I can tell, the SRU port is only used for vacuum - not for creating positive pressure.

Does that make sense? If so, what part of the pump could be broken? I don't know anything about pumps. I didn't see any diaphram. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I feel like I'm so close to getting this issue resolved. thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I think I found the source of the problem.

See the crack on the white plastic near the front of this picture? That crack is on the infrastructure that goes to the SRU port.

Does anyone think there's a compound that will seal that (assume it can take up to 30psi)? Or the fact that it is split means it needs to be replaced? What are those ball-bearings used for?

 

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Discussion Starter #13
Problem solved!

There were three cracks on the white plastic as seen above. I used Loctite plastic expoxy glue to fill in the cracks. I applied the glue and let it cure for 12 hours. Then I applied a second coat and let that cure for 24 hours. I tried out the pump and it holds vacuum! The Loctite epoxy for plastic bottle has a purple label with a UPC code of 0 79340 68584 0. It cost about $6.

I thought it resolved my P0170/P0173 errors, but those error codes came back up after 120 miles. That's another story on another thread, but this problem is now behind me and the fix was a success. I don't know if it will be a permanent fix, but we will see. The good thing is that my pump doesn't continuously run.
 

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Todd,

Did you resolve your problem with your pump?

Where did you get the epoxy with the purple label at?

On post No 8 third picture how did you separate the upper white motor casing from the lower casing?

Thank you,

Martin
 

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You can use plastic model glue also, make sure to clean it and remove any grease first.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
It was a PITA, if I remember correctly. I think it was brute force - pulling apart or using a flathead to separate the two sections. At that point, I was all in and didn't have anything to lose. Looking at that picture that you referenced, you will see stubs on the base that look like rivets. I believe that is what really held the two parts together. I was concerned that when I put it back together, it wouldn't work properly, but that wasn't the case.

I bought the Loctite epoxy at Lowes/Home Depot. I included the UPC code so others could find it online or wherever they shop.

I hope that helps.
 

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Todd,

Thank you.

Martin
 

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2000 E430 4-Matic
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Todd-
Way to go on this issue. Well done. I recently bought a 2000 e430 which I adore. Since you now seem to be the resident expert I will ask you about this issue. I notice the 'grrr' noise when the engine is running and the A/C is on. It 'grrs' for a few seconds and stops and repeats the sequence. I think my first course of action is to look for leaks so what is the proper sequence for tracking down the A/C line. Also, I'm not clear on one point. There are 6 yellow lines and they all seem to be spoken for (4 doors, 1 gas cap, 1 trunk). How can there be extra things controlled (A/C, bladders) if there are no lines for them.

Thanks,
David
 
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