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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi to all, i just got a question about carbon build up on the M119 engine in the 420 and 500's, has anyone in this forum had this problem? what did it cause? and if they have how did they resolve the issue?
 

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CL500 W140 '97 Coupe
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62 Posts
If you have this Carbon, try some of the 'BG' fuel/engine additives or the 'Archoil' range of products......Just a suggestion (as i don't know what the OP is eluding to)...And i have used these products myself, with proven benefits.
 

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94 s420 250kmiles
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827 Posts
when i got my car all i did to clear out the carbon was jump on the freeway and floor it a few times and each time there was less and less black crap out the tail pipe.
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #5

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CL500 W140 '97 Coupe
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62 Posts
Hmmm..!!

Could be a bit of paranoia creeping in there bud!

Nevertheless, please have a look at the products i mentioned in my post above, they are not just snake-oil as many would say but industry approved products..no harm in researching!

Tapatalk from Galaxy S2
 

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Moderator
93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
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In the Union of California in the USA when you say carbon build-up is the result of throwing a EGR code, and like most dummies replaced the EGR. Consequently, all it is the "carbon build-up" in the Exuast Resurculation pipe(or channels) to the intake manifold. The Carbon build-up closes-up the pipe, and all that is needed is to get a drill with a long piece of coat-hanger to clean-up the "Carbon Build-up"

Is this what you are talking about?

Martin
 

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1999 s320 188k
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124 Posts
In the Union of California in the USA when you say carbon build-up is the result of throwing a EGR code, and like most dummies replaced the EGR. Consequently, all it is the "carbon build-up" in the Exuast Resurculation pipe(or channels) to the intake manifold. The Carbon build-up closes-up the pipe, and all that is needed is to get a drill with a long piece of coat-hanger to clean-up the "Carbon Build-up"

Is this what you are talking about?

Martin
I a got that same pipe you are talking about for $250. The code went away but came back about 3 weeks later. The mechanic said there is another pipe under the intake manifold, and if he had to take the intake manifold off it would cost $580.

Since the code came.back ill try the coat hanger
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
In the Union of California in the USA when you say carbon build-up is the result of throwing a EGR code, and like most dummies replaced the EGR. Consequently, all it is the "carbon build-up" in the Exuast Resurculation pipe(or channels) to the intake manifold. The Carbon build-up closes-up the pipe, and all that is needed is to get a drill with a long piece of coat-hanger to clean-up the "Carbon Build-up"

Is this what you are talking about?

Martin
Yes, im just curious, does it cause a rough idle? ive had this issue ever since i got the car, i checked all vacuum lines - at least on the diargram, i changed all sparkplugs, and checked ignition coil, and the check engine light( that illuminates when it wants to) throws this po410 code along with a fuel trim code and some misfire codes, like that link i gave above with the guy who went through this whole cleaning "operation" on his e420, i have a feeling its causing my problem
 

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W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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7,642 Posts
When i 1st got mine it had this carbon build up due to the doctors driving that had the car before me , i changed the oil over & over with cheap oil driving it around on highways & change it again ,filter included everytime ,then i added fully synthetic oil and drove it for about a 1000 km's changed the oil again and since today my inside of the engine in what i can see trough the oil filler cap looks pretty clean to me ,i must have changed the oil including sparkplugs/filters etc in my car at least more then 10 times since i got her 5 years ago .
These cars are long distance cruisers they are not meant to drive around at 40/60+kmh ,(city driving ) ,thats why they clogg up slowly.
Change the oil and filter and take your car onto a long stretch of road ,at least 500km's at a constant speed of about 110+km/h and you will see the engine will correspond and sound much better ,not only the engine but also the transmission .
Have you ever look't in the reaview mirror while you floor the pedal ,what did you see? , a lot of weitish/grey sort of smoke but it only happens once or twice ,thats your city driving clogg up there .
There is some Wynies (i think its called ) add on to the petrol or oil liquid you can buy but i dont recommend that stuff at all ,it simply dosnt work, is expensive to get & could detune your engine completely by clogging the injectors or one of them wich is inaf .:thumbsup:
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
When i 1st got mine it had this carbon build up due to the doctors driving that had the car before me , i changed the oil over & over with cheap oil driving it around on highways & change it again ,filter included everytime ,then i added fully synthetic oil and drove it for about a 1000 km's changed the oil again and since today my inside of the engine in what i can see trough the oil filler cap looks pretty clean to me ,i must have changed the oil including sparkplugs/filters etc in my car at least more then 10 times since i got her 5 years ago .
These cars are long distance cruisers they are not meant to drive around at 40/60+kmh ,(city driving ) ,thats why they clogg up slowly.
Change the oil and filter and take your car onto a long stretch of road ,at least 500km's at a constant speed of about 110+km/h and you will see the engine will correspond and sound much better ,not only the engine but also the transmission .
Have you ever look't in the reaview mirror while you floor the pedal ,what did you see? , a lot of weitish/grey sort of smoke but it only happens once or twice ,thats your city driving clogg up there .
There is some Wynies (i think its called ) add on to the petrol or oil liquid you can buy but i dont recommend that stuff at all ,it simply dosnt work, is expensive to get & could detune your engine completely by clogging the injectors or one of them wich is inaf .:thumbsup:
Hmm... interesting point, ever since i got the car i put 8 thousand kilometers on it, i did an oil change roughly 3000 kilometers ago with fully synthetic 5w40 oil and an oil filter from the dealer, i don't usually floor my car, but in situations like coming on to the highway i do, however i never looked back :D, but if what you said is true shouldn't my problem be fixed? because even if revved the engine that smoke should have came out but it doesn't, and we know that the w140 was meant as a cruiser, but im not exactly in the city either, more like the suburbs, and i use this car almost everyday, driving 30 miles on average
 

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1992 500 SEL; 2000 CLK 430 CONV. 2000 BMW 740 BMW
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98 Posts
long distance and up in th 80 mph range and once in a while go to higher speeds

and be safe
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
long distance and up in th 80 mph range and once in a while go to higher speeds

and be safe
Haha, i already went 105 once i could have kept on going but traffic stopped me, and the other day i went 95, as for being safe, i dont know, i wouldn't call going that fast being safe
 

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W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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7,642 Posts
Hmm... interesting point, ever since i got the car i put 8 thousand kilometers on it, i did an oil change roughly 3000 kilometers ago with fully synthetic 5w40 oil and an oil filter from the dealer, i don't usually floor my car, but in situations like coming on to the highway i do, however i never looked back :D, but if what you said is true shouldn't my problem be fixed? because even if revved the engine that smoke should have came out but it doesn't, and we know that the w140 was meant as a cruiser, but im not exactly in the city either, more like the suburbs, and i use this car almost everyday, driving 30 miles on average
If you drive aprox 30miles (Honda Civic distance ) only & never gone for a long constant drive , i'm more then positve that your engine is clogged up ,oilslug etc ,take a Ferrari for example ,thoses engines are build for the track to run at high speed ,ask yourself the question why do Ferrari owners take there expensive car onto the track ,"to free the engine of build ups " , a Ferrari that dosnt see the race track once in a while dosnt run good,same thing with our 140's ,sometimes they like to see the distance travel.
8000km'h at 30 miles is nothing .The smoke should come out under load not just reving the engine up from idle,last time i did it you should have seen behind me but it only did it once then no more .To free oilslug dosnt happen quickly but over time with maintenance by the owner ,check vid below .
Highest speed i had mine was close to 180km/h & i didnt even know it thats how much the 140 loves the high speed ,thats when they wake up,lol . :thumbsup:
I think your engine's inside would look close to this ,not exactly but there .
 

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2006 S500 AMG Wifes Rig Hillbilly Girl 02 ML320
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How long since new caps and rotors?? They make big diff on a M119 !!

Smokie
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
If you drive aprox 30miles (Honda Civic distance ) only & never gone for a long constant drive , i'm more then positve that your engine is clogged up ,oilslug etc ,take a Ferrari for example ,thoses engines are build for the track to run at high speed ,ask yourself the question why do Ferrari owners take there expensive car onto the track ,"to free the engine of build ups " , a Ferrari that dosnt see the race track once in a while dosnt run good,same thing with our 140's ,sometimes they like to see the distance travel.
8000km'h at 30 miles is nothing .The smoke should come out under load not just reving the engine up from idle,last time i did it you should have seen behind me but it only did it once then no more .To free oilslug dosnt happen quickly but over time with maintenance by the owner ,check vid below .
Highest speed i had mine was close to 180km/h & i didnt even know it thats how much the 140 loves the high speed ,thats when they wake up,lol . :thumbsup:
PRO-TEC Engine Flush - Oil System Cleaning (en) - YouTube
I think your engine's inside would look close to this ,not exactly but there .
Engine Sludge - YouTube
Well i did occasionally take the car on a 100 mile road trim or 160 km sometimes more, but what you told me gave me some consideration, so i went out and inspected the engine, now before when the cel would illuminate it would show that my problem is happening on the right side, so i went and looked around, i opened the oil cap, and saw that the camshaft seemed to be clean, there didnt seem to be any sludge - at least in the area that i saw however there was this black powderish stuff mostly on the right bank, it seemed to be on the walls of the bank, i even took some pics
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
How long since new caps and rotors?? They make big diff on a M119 !!

Smokie
caps and rotors? i dont think mine has a distributor, it has coils
 

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93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
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I think. This is my opinion. The EGR works more when a hard or quick acceleration, so it means the EGR valve/pipe(s) have more of an opportunity to plug-up versus the person who uses the car at a constant speed(highway driving).

Generally, most vehicles will throw an EGR code over 100k miles. The smaller diameter the EGR pipe the sooner it happen, and the larger diameter the pipe the longer it takes. Common problem. When the pipe is clogged with carbon the engine generally idles very well !

Remember what the EGR does, it recirculates exhaust gases into the fuel/air mixture. if you do not HAVE "bad air" in the mix the presence.Of A "bad idle" is non existent as the result of the EGR system.

On our late 90's Mercedes(I have a 96 and 98) the EGR is vacuum controlled), and small ball-bearing CAN be placed in the vacuum line at the EGR to get a better performing Engine(it is illegal in California, and emissions technicians do test for the ball bearing). Now, if an engine is running weird, The EGR path to the intake-manifold can be capped. Engine operation improves. The EGR valve itself could be leaking, or "Carbonized"-may just need cleaning.

On our W140's the EGR can be tested for Go/No-Go operation very easily.

1) locate the 3" or so square with a round top metallic looking color valve with a 3/8 rubber tubing on it. The EGR on W140's has this 1/4"IDx3/8"OD adobe-orange(my S320 did) silicone tubing on it.
2) Disconnect the tubing from the valve
3) attach a 3' piece of any tubing
4) pull vacuum on the 3" piece of tubing, or suck on it-Does it hold vacuum?Do you hear the valve open and close?
5)If you start the engine,vacuum(or sucking on the tubing-you will not ingest exhaust gases) is applied. The engine should idle rough, and maybe even turn off on you-do not panic!
6) Those are the signs of a proper EGR valve working.
7) If nothing happens, the valve could be damaged, plugged-up. The EGR passages could be plugged-up too.
8) before any Emissions test do this test to "Qualify that the EGR system works" Those of you in country's or states that do not have emissions testing. All I say. You lucky BASTARDS... Because In the Union Of California of the United States it is a requirement every other year, or else one does not get to drive that vehicle ...

NOTE....You guys with 92,93,94,95 W140's I do not know how you reset an engine code, but on any Car in America of the year 1996 and above. An OBDII tester will reset the EGR code...

Martin
 

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93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
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FYI, the second to the last picture. Is what the valve looks like, but that one is not the one! because the EGR valve always has a metal pipe attached not a rubber one. The one in the picture is the one from the air-pump.Follow the metal pipe from the Exhaust manifold to the EGR...

Martin
 

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1998 W140 S420
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271 Posts
Discussion Starter #20
I think. This is my opinion. The EGR works more when a hard or quick acceleration, so it means the EGR valve/pipe(s) have more of an opportunity to plug-up versus the person who uses the car at a constant speed(highway driving).

Generally, most vehicles will throw an EGR code over 100k miles. The smaller diameter the EGR pipe the sooner it happen, and the larger diameter the pipe the longer it takes. Common problem. When the pipe is clogged with carbon the engine generally idles very well !

Remember what the EGR does, it recirculates exhaust gases into the fuel/air mixture. if you do not HAVE "bad air" in the mix the presence.Of A "bad idle" is non existent as the result of the EGR system.

On our late 90's Mercedes(I have a 96 and 98) the EGR is vacuum controlled), and small ball-bearing CAN be placed in the vacuum line at the EGR to get a better performing Engine(it is illegal in California, and emissions technicians do test for the ball bearing). Now, if an engine is running weird, The EGR path to the intake-manifold can be capped. Engine operation improves. The EGR valve itself could be leaking, or "Carbonized"-may just need cleaning.

On our W140's the EGR can be tested for Go/No-Go operation very easily.

1) locate the 3" or so square with a round top metallic looking color valve with a 3/8 rubber tubing on it. The EGR on W140's has this 1/4"IDx3/8"OD adobe-orange(my S320 did) silicone tubing on it.
2) Disconnect the tubing from the valve
3) attach a 3' piece of any tubing
4) pull vacuum on the 3" piece of tubing, or suck on it-Does it hold vacuum?Do you hear the valve open and close?
5)If you start the engine,vacuum(or sucking on the tubing-you will not ingest exhaust gases) is applied. The engine should idle rough, and maybe even turn off on you-do not panic!
6) Those are the signs of a proper EGR valve working.
7) If nothing happens, the valve could be damaged, plugged-up. The EGR passages could be plugged-up too.
8) before any Emissions test do this test to "Qualify that the EGR system works" Those of you in country's or states that do not have emissions testing. All I say. You lucky BASTARDS... Because In the Union Of California of the United States it is a requirement every other year, or else one does not get to drive that vehicle ...

NOTE....You guys with 92,93,94,95 W140's I do not know how you reset an engine code, but on any Car in America of the year 1996 and above. An OBDII tester will reset the EGR code...

Martin
Pardon me, but im rather confused, so what you are trying to say is that even if the egr clogs up it will idle perfectly?, now im completely lost, then what about the carbon build up on the walls?
 
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