Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
MP245 - Can Zandvoort Host An F1 Dutch Grand Prix?
IMO … yes it can … and so can Assen and the Nürburgring-Nordschleife too. Of course, the F1 cars would have to be modified in such a way that they can be used on a real race track without falling apart after half a lap.

I know, most people would contradict and say “No way ... too dangerous“. … Having seen motorsport on all those and many other race tracks since the 1960‘s I say, no matter which motorsport category, it was always dangerous compared to today‘s F1 which mostly takes place on artificial fool-proof, flat and smoothly asphalted areas which resemble go-kart tracks that have been blown up a little. … Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer real world race tracks with individual ‘characters‘, where people demonstrate what they‘re able and dare to do on wheels.

Looking at today‘s F1 I wouldn‘t be surprised if soon it will be an event where a bunch of adolescents sit together several times a year in a room, or even alone at their homes, with joysticks in their hands and remote control soundless vehicles on tracks around the world. … Not that I‘d be there and watch it, but maybe that way F1 will finally return even to the Nordschleife. … :D

H.D.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
IMO … yes it can … and so can Assen and the Nürburgring-Nordschleife too. Of course, the F1 cars would have to be modified in such a way that they can be used on a real race track without falling apart after half a lap.

I know, most people would contradict and say “No way ... too dangerous“. … Having seen motorsport on all those and many other race tracks since the 1960‘s I say, no matter which motorsport category, it was always dangerous compared to today‘s F1 which mostly takes place on artificial fool-proof, flat and smoothly asphalted areas which resemble go-kart tracks that have been blown up a little. … Call me old-fashioned, but I prefer real world race tracks with individual ‘characters‘, where people demonstrate what they‘re able and dare to do on wheels.

Looking at today‘s F1 I wouldn‘t be surprised if soon it will be an event where a bunch of adolescents sit together several times a year in a room, or even alone at their homes, with joysticks in their hands and remote control soundless vehicles on tracks around the world. … Not that I‘d be there and watch it, but maybe that way F1 will finally return even to the Nordschleife. … :D

H.D.
I haven't been in Zandvoort for many years, but used to visit 3 times a month or so. The front half (or a bit more as seen from the coastal road), with the long straight along the old grandstands with a unique (Tarzan's Paw) corner at the end (used to have a little restaurant next to it) looks the same. I guess the land of the rear part has been sold and residences build on it. That's the part where Piers Courage burned to death in his car. We were on top of the dune, looking down on the whole accident and his death. It took the marshals a long time to erect a cover and block sight of the car. The smell is not easy to forget.
I assume one advantage of the track being in the dunes, they should be a natural sound barrier/reducer for whoever lives in those new houses.
Zandvoort is a very nice place, lodging / hotel space will be an issue (there used to be a Loews right across), parking as well.
About 1 km up the coastal road is a railway station, but the N200 from Amsterdam via Haarlem used to be the only mayor road in or out.

Near the entry to the track used to be a skidding (should be another word for it) school (Slotemaker?). On a wetted parkour I used to watch the main instructor drive at speed towards 2 posts, do a 180 degree spin, and wind up parked backwards between 2 posts with perhaps a foot and a half on each side.
The posts were not plastic but real concrete.
My friend Herman's family home, plus a guest house they build in the 80's was just a few hundred yards S on Burgermeeester... from the track's entrance.

Honorable mention: A tunnel leads under the track to infield parking, and I remember one of the driver (Jo Schlesser, J.P Jabouille ?) punching a journalist

'Tarzan's Paw,' the corner at the end of the start/finish straight, is a multiple radius hairpin (= paw).
The speed possible to carry through the first part is easily too fast for the second.
It can be quite tricky, but there is a high sand dune to catch the too fast cars. Don't ask how i know :frown
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Zandvoort
pic shows the old and new track
 

Attachments

·
Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
... That's the part where Piers Courage burned to death in his car. ...
I saw that accident on TV in Tirol, where we were on summer vacation when that race took place. They say that he died before the fire started. When he crashed into the dune his front wheel including suspension and his helmet where ripped off and the front wheel hit his unprotected head. They say that his head was fatally injured by that.

Zandvoort was not bad. And I also liked Assen a lot … and still like it. The legendary Dutch motorcycle GP always took place there a week before the also legendary Belgian motorcycle GP in Spa-Francorchamps … two of the anual motorsport highlights for me and many others around here. Both events had a terrific atmosphere and masses of spectators (many of them the same) came to them. … :)

H.D.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
According to Joe Saward, confirmation of the Zandvoort F1 GP is imminent.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #6
The Dutch GP

https://www.motorsportweek.com/joesaward/id/00497

And by the way, the Dutch Grand Prix will be confirmed on May 14 and will take place at Zandvoort on May 10 2020 - so long as there is some work done to upgrade the paddock area. The bad news for Spanish F1 fans is that we may be heading to the last Spanish GP next week, as the problems between Spain and Catalonia (which have dominated the general election that was held at the weekend) will make it impossible for a deal to be struck for the future. Things will obviously not be helped by the fact that Fernando Alonso has left F1...
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Take a lap of Zandvoort with Max Verstappen

Take a lap of Zandvoort | Jump on board with Max Verstappen around Circuit Zandvoort

 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
1980 F1 Dutch GP

German, I couldn't find an English version, there is another in Dutch online.

 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
John Hugenholtz

The by drivers and fans beloved Suzuka circuit and Zandvoort were designed by John Hugenholtz.
I am quite familiar with the old track, and more familiar than I want to be with the sand / gravel trap at the 'Tarzan's Paw corner' at the end of the start/stop straight :grin
 

·
Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
Many of today‘s (by me not exactly beloved :rolleyes:) circuits around the world were designed by an archticture office here in my home town (Tilke Ingenieure & Architekten). They also design go-kart tracks (“quelle surprise!“ ;)). AFAIK, one of their current projects is a city circuit in New York.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Many of today‘s (by me not exactly beloved :rolleyes:) circuits around the world were designed by an archticture office here in my home town (Tilke Ingenieure & Architekten). They also design go-kart tracks (“quelle surprise!“ ;)). AFAIK, one of their current projects is a city circuit in New York.
A few years ago, there was one planned on the other side of, and partly along the river, with the NY skyline in the background. I think Vettel/Coulthard may have even driven on a bit of dirt road there. But like so many others, that project went nowhere.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
A few years ago, there was one planned on the other side of, and partly along the river, with the NY skyline in the background. I think Vettel/Coulthard may have even driven on a bit of dirt road there. But like so many others, that project went nowhere.
I assume unless someone is paying, Tilke wouldn't work on the project.

Found the old video


 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I have driven the old circuit, not the shortened track, but from the video the start/finish straight, Tarzan's Paw and the flurry of the following corners are the same, and there are still some cool elevation changes.
I hope they leave the character of Tarzan's Paw intact as it was / is one of racings great corners. Even if it doesn't appear to be, but its banked.
The rear part Piers Courage lost his life on is gone, and has residential buildings now. I guess the dunes the track is build in provides a natural sound barrier.

 

·
Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
1,363 Posts
I assume unless someone is paying, Tilke wouldn't work on the project. ...
Right. I asked a friend who knows the Tilke people. He said that, as far as he knows, they‘re currently not further working on the New York city circuit project.
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sliding School Rob Slotemaker

I remember Rob Slotemakers sliding school using on a piece of watered down tarmac to the right of the Zandvoort circuits entry. Mind you, this was long before ABS.
The master could drive a car one direction, rotate it one and a half turns and have it stopped backwards into a coned off parking spot. It was a treat to watch him in action.
Apparently he used to operate a school in the UK as well. The Dutch sliding school still operates (after Slotemakers passing).

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
75 Posts
I loved this track. I used to have to got to Amsterdam every quarter for my job and got to visit the track too.

I participated in a couple of corporate league fun days whereby they had 5-6 different cars you could drive. Formula 3 Ford, Porsche 944, some other hot hatches too. The skid pad was excellent as well as the go-karts and even had a 4x4 route too. It was a blast each time.

I didn't speak any Dutch so I wasn't always clear on the instructions given but thought I was the real Top Gun when I achieved 3rd place out of 180 participants one trip. That really made my day! :wink :grin
 

·
CH4S Artist , Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
39,045 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
I loved this track. I used to have to got to Amsterdam every quarter for my job and got to visit the track too.

I participated in a couple of corporate league fun days whereby they had 5-6 different cars you could drive. Formula 3 Ford, Porsche 944, some other hot hatches too. The skid pad was excellent as well as the go-karts and even had a 4x4 route too. It was a blast each time.

I didn't speak any Dutch so I wasn't always clear on the instructions given but thought I was the real Top Gun when I achieved 3rd place out of 180 participants one trip. That really made my day! :wink :grin
Tarzan's Paw at the end of the straight is a bit of a blood test, a bit too fast, and you just wind up in the sand runoff. Don't ask how I know :grin
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,810 Posts
I was at Zandavoort in April, before the announcement.

My thoughts then were "what a fu%#ing dump" and that it would take YEARS to get the facilities ready for such an event.

Time will tell.
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
About this Discussion
19 Replies
4 Participants
LostInTime
Mercedes-Benz Forum
BenzWorld.org forum is one of the largest Mercedes-Benz owner websites offering the most comprehensive collection of Mercedes-Benz information anywhere in the world. The site includes MB Forums, News, Galleries, Publications, Classifieds, Events and much more!
Full Forum Listing
Top