Camshaft position sensor?

31399 Views 31 Replies 6 Participants Last post by chalcedony, May 11, 2009

michom

Discussion Starter · Apr 3, 2009

Hello everyone,
I recently had some troubles with firing the engine on my clk320 2003. Problems always came up when the car is warm, I usually wait for a minutes and fire again and the engine starts. A local mechanic used his scanner and told me it was the camshaft position sensor. I asked the dealer here, it costs $250 in Lebanon, and I found the same one on ebay for $47 + $20 (shipping).

So I've got a couple of questions. The dealer is Deutsche Parts, is it going to be reliable or it is not worth saving those ~$180? Could the problem be something else than the camshaft position sensor?

Thanks in Advance!!

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eric242340

· #2 · Apr 3, 2009 (Edited)

michom said:
Hello everyone,
I recently had some troubles with firing the engine on my clk320 2003. Problems always came up when the car is warm, I usually wait for a minutes and fire again and the engine starts. A local mechanic used his scanner and told me it was the camshaft position sensor. I asked the dealer here, it costs $250 in Lebanon, and I found the same one on ebay for $47 + $20 (shipping).

So I've got a couple of questions. The dealer is Deutsche Parts, is it going to be reliable or it is not worth saving those ~$180? Could the problem be something else than the camshaft position sensor?

Thanks in Advance!!

Be careful on this, Camshaft position sensor will not kill the engine or create problems with starting, the crankshaft position sensor will. I hope he has not confused the two

The camshaft position sensor (CPS) sends information to help with mixture adaptation etc, whereas the Cranshaft position sensor is the wake up call for the ECU (engine Contol Unit) and the ECU sends the signal for the fuel pump to activate.
The Crankshaft position sensor is also know as the (KPS) is known to break down when hot.

michom

Discussion Starter · #3 · Apr 3, 2009

I have read about both of them. I never had the problem where the sensor kills the engine. I only have the problem when i sometimes start the car, i hear the engine "cranking" but it won't start, it keeps trying to start until i turn over the key, wait for a minute, and try again, it starts normally. The scanner shows CPS fault only and it showed the camshaft location in WIS (i guess) when he entered the fault code (front of the engine on its right?). The problem is, it is hard to trust a mechanic over here, even if he works in MB...

eric242340

· #4 · Apr 3, 2009

michom said:
I have read about both of them. I never had the problem where the sensor kills the engine. I only have the problem when i sometimes start the car, i hear the engine "cranking" but it won't start, it keeps trying to start until i turn over the key, wait for a minute, and try again, it starts normally. The scanner shows CPS fault only and it showed the camshaft location in WIS (i guess) when he entered the fault code (front of the engine on its right?). The problem is, it is hard to trust a mechanic over here, even if he works in MB...

If you have the E320 then its the V6 engine with two camshaft position sensors, left bank and right bank. If one fails completely it will not cause this problem. So back to the training stage for your mechanic

The main reason I say be careful here is the KPS does not (always) show a fault code and if the mechanic does not understand what I have just told you then he could be fooled into thinking the CPS is the main cause.:thumbsup:

michom

Discussion Starter · #5 · Apr 3, 2009

it is a CLK320 with a V6 engine. as far as I understood, there's one camshaft position sensor, check this post, someone attached a picture http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w209-new-clk-class/1432117-camshaft-position-sensor-location.html
I have also read elsewhere that other people has such problems... but I need to be sure.

is there any way to be sure if it's the KPS or CPS?

eric242340

· #6 · Apr 3, 2009

michom said:
it is a CLK320 with a V6 engine. as far as I understood, there's one camshaft position sensor, check this post, someone attached a picture http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w209-new-clk-class/1432117-camshaft-position-sensor-location.html
I have also read elsewhere that other people has such problems... but I need to be sure.

is there any way to be sure if it's the KPS or CPS?

The picture you posted is from WIS and shows the right bank camshaft position sensor but there is a left bank position sensor as well. There is no way to be 100% sure if it is the CPS or KPS.

keyhole

· #7 · Apr 3, 2009

eric242340 said:
The picture you posted is from WIS and shows the right bank camshaft position sensor but there is a left bank position sensor as well.

Eric - I do respect your M-B knowledge... but are you sure about this? I took a good look at my 112 engine today, and I can only see one CPS - unless it is at the other end of the engine

Check Codes

· #8 · Apr 4, 2009 (Edited)

I have the same M112 in my W210 and the EPC shows only one CPS for it.

OP, I've never heard of your ebay seller, but I'm always suspicious of ebay deals that are too good to be true. There are lots of Chinese replicas out there. Autohausaz.com will ship outside the US for a fair price and they have it -- genuine Bosch -- for $60.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg

michom

Discussion Starter · #9 · Apr 4, 2009

Thank you all for your replies, as for Autohausaz, they don't ship to Lebanon although they ship to every other single country on this planet!!! I emailed them about this. Meanwhile could you please suggest other alternatives for genuine parts?

eric242340

· #10 · Apr 9, 2009

keyhole said:
Eric - I do respect your M-B knowledge... but are you sure about this? I took a good look at my 112 engine today, and I can only see one CPS - unless it is at the other end of the engine

Whoops, I stand corrected:thumbsup:

michom

Discussion Starter · #11 · Apr 9, 2009

Hi again,
I have changed the camshaft position sensor last week during the weekend, I bought a used one made by BOSCH. I didn't have any problem since then, so hopefully the problem is solved

thank you all for your help... btw I can confirm that there is one camshaft sensor and it is located on the right front side of the engine.

chalcedony

· #12 · Apr 9, 2009

i have same problem

Hi everyone i am new to this site, and not really sure if I should ask my question here or elsewhere, but i have been having the same problem, if I am wrong by butting in here then please tell me??
I am female so prob going to go on a bit when i dont need to

but anyway here goes.
My clk 230kompressor cabriolet 2001 had been stood for 6 months. Absolutly no probs the day i parked up. Fired car up (my pride and joy i might add) started 1st time no problems, left running for a while then switched off.
tried to start it the next day to take for mot, would not start, then eventually started like normal but engine diagnostic lamp on! Drove badly would not go above 3000 revs very lumpy.Mot station put on diagnostic machine, came up, crank shaft position sensor. Got part from mb, myself and my dear old dad changed the sensor, bruised hands to prove it, what a job!!
Anyway no improvement, on further investigation we noted oil in breather system pipes etc, and maf sensor was black! So on advice we cleaned everything and cleaned out brass valves and changed pipes low down in the engine ( sorry dont know official names). Have taken the car out today, ran and started everytime like a dream,only drove very easy did not attempt to go over 3500 revs as we still have concerns. There was oil in the connector on the front of the camshaft, we cleaned this all out but have not replaced it. Was advised today to replace the magnet and the wire and connector, (rang mb, they have both in stock). Now finally i get to the point and my question, is the oil in this connector related to the origanl problem, could it leaking from the camshaft and if so where and how would we fix it?? Dont want to change magnet or wiring etc without first solving the problem or have we already solved the problem by what we have alredy done??
I am so sorry to go on, but any help advice would be really really appreciated.

Many thanks
Julie:newbie:

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keyhole

· #13 · Apr 10, 2009

Hi Julie - welcome to the CLK forum. Please take a moment to use the UserCP above to add some details about your location, model, etc. It often helps.

About your post - probably better if you had started a new thread with an appropriate title, as this one was about camshaft position sensor replacement, and was finished. However, you are new and we can cut you a little slack....

Your post is interesting as you described your fault and the subsequent investigation journey. It's always important that you list the mileage on the car as this is often significant. If you read other threads about CPS & KPS you will know that the M-B fault codes for these failures are frequently unreliable...

It looks like you have nailed the original fault by cleaning (why not replacing?) your MAF. It should not get black so there is a potential future problem in that area. I would do a thorough clean-up of the suspect areas of the engine, so that over the next few weeks you can better monitor where the oil leakage is definitely coming from. It's very easy to get mislead about the source of oil leaks.

michom has just successfully changed his CPS so should have an idea about the possiblity of leaks in the connector area. Over to him....:thumbsup:

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chalcedony

· #14 · Apr 11, 2009

thanks

Thank you for the reply and advice, I will use the ucp in a min. My car has done 52,ooo I have owned it for 3 1/2 yrs. The reason we cleaned not changed the maf was because it seemed to clean ok, im guessing you consider it better to change it?? My dad and myself are doing the repairs and learning as we go along, my dad has great knowledge of older engines but the more modern ones with their sensors etc take a little longer to understand, plus my dad says things have different names now

The maf is like a section of pipe with a mesh piece that protects a small nodule?? If not then we looking at wrong thing

.
Anyway think we sorced the leak yesterday, we took off the camshaft cover and various other parts and could see where the oil was leaking into. It seems that there is no way of stopping this leak, only fitting this modified part to the front of the camshaft, that acts as an oil trap to stop the oil entering the loom?? I have ordered this cable from mercedes today, so they are obviously aware of this if they have made a part to prevent it!!
Our plan is to put it all back together, get the light turned off and take it from there.It seems there are so many parts that can be affected because of this,the wiring harness, o2 sensor, maf and even the ecu could need changing that we are going to take it one step at a time. Any advice would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

Julie

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keyhole

· #15 · Apr 11, 2009

2

Ah... you have a 2001. That's really for the W208 forum. Completely different engine here, as it is a M111.

I took a look at my WIS, and there is a special note about your exact problem. It's obviously well known by M-B, and entails replacing the camshaft adjustment solenoid, and installing an adaptor cable.

Relevant pages here for you to digest. (there seems to be a typesetting error in the second image, but you can guess the intent) You will have to enlarge the text using the page magnifyer on your PC. Parts reqd are:

Adaptor cable A271 150 27 33. Tie strap QA0012 997 83 90

Re your MAF, yes you have identified it correctly. If it's working OK you have been lucky as they are quite sensitive to pollution. However if you do the fix recommended, all those other bits will not be affected.

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keyhole

· #16 · Apr 12, 2009

Julie - I just did a search in the W208 archives to see if anyone there has ever reported your fault. There is one dated 2005, (early days for this site!) also with a 2001 CLK 230:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w208-clk-class/1241588-oil-leak-into-ecu.html

Unfortunately there was no conclusion to that thread.

chalcedony

· #17 · Apr 12, 2009

camshaft leak

Hi keyhole
Thanks so much for your time and effort its much appreciated. The thread from 2005 ask if they should throw there toys out of pram, im considering doing just that! Seems crazy to me that with seemingly such an inherant fault on these engines, mercedes have not called back or offered the adaptor cable to prevent the disaterous possibilities of this leak, that i might add it seems we cannot actually completley fix, only take avoiding action!
Anyway I have the mod part on order and I will see how she goes, if still not 100% I will change maf, then o2 sensor then wiring loom, but one step (exspense) at a time. At least with thanks to my dad, bless him, I dont have labour costs

Julie

Ps I will keep posting on this thread, if thats ok? to keep updated on progress, you never know it may help someone in the future

Check Codes

· #18 · Apr 12, 2009

Hi, Julie, my welcome, too.

Just a couple of suggestions since it sounds as though you and pops (with Keyhole's help) have the present situation in hand.

First, when a mod comes along s/he can cut you posts out of this thread and create a new thread in the 208 forum, so while it would have better on it's own that's not a crime. So, until that happens you might as well continue here.

Second, most of the members on here are from the US, and on this side of the pond we don't get that engine in the CLK. So when you're searching for information related to your engine -- as opposed to your 208 chassis -- then check in the 202 and 203 forums as those are very common engines in those chassis.

Last, the MAF is the assembly you describe, but to properly clean it you need to remove the sensor insert (the nodule) and clean the port in it. The assembly is quite similar to the 210 design, and I did a pictorial DIY in that forum on how to clean it, it is in the help/diy stickies, engine section.

Take care and enjoy the ride,
Greg

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chalcedony

· #19 · Apr 12, 2009

thanks

Thanks Gregg for the sift reply, have located your pictorial and it is a great help.
I only had the one code, cps, so im hoping my maf is ok, but we will see how it goes, i will keep you posted

keyhole

· #20 · Apr 12, 2009

Hi Julie

I agree with Greg that unless a mod moves your thread to the W208 forum, we might as well continue here. And his point about the 202 and 203 forums is important too. Confusingly, M-B shares some engines between different body styles, so you have to be prepared to look in both areas.

Regarding your oil leak problem, and M-B's attitude to such a 'design fault' - I suppose that they consider that anything that lasts beyond their 3 year warranty period (in the US) only fails through 'fair wear & tear'. In this instance they are clearly wrong. However, they will do free replacements of some parts. One example I know about is the free replacements of thousands of the 3rd brake light on the W209 CLK.

Finally, a couple of tips here, as your dad is available to do basic jobs for you. Get yourself a 3 DVD set of M-B WIS (service manual) from eBay. Mine was only £10 and has lots of good stuff, including torque settings. He also should have a couple of torque wrenches - one for the low range, say 5 -25 Nm, and the other for the high range. I spent years fixing my cars without owning a TW, but now for my CLK I always use them - even for fitting the wheels.

I'll monitor here for any future comments on your progress. Use PM for anything else. :thumbsup:

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