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Brakes Improvements

5K views 30 replies 10 participants last post by  msbarsi 
#1 · (Edited)
I'm thinking about upgrading my 1997 SL500 brakes but not sure that I need F1-style brakes so unlikley I'll be going down the route of the AMG callipers. I'm thinking about the following in order of priority

1. Flush entire system brake fluid and replenish with DOT-4 brake fluid
2. Change existing brake pads to EBC brake pads (from www.ebcbrakes.com) – which ones would be the best choice? I checked their website (see below for EBC recommendations)
3. Change to stainless steel brake lines (from www.goodridge.net) - does one do all four wheels or just front?
4. Changes discs (ventilated / cross-drilled)

I'd be interested to know what sort of percentage improvement I'd receive (above OEM rubber lines, pads etc) for each of the above (is there anything I have overlooked?)

I'd love the full all-singing-all-dancing AMG brakes but this would be overkill for Hong Kong's relatively low speed roads / driving.

Cheers

Alan
 

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#2 ·
Brake pads - get EBC Red Stuff Ceramic. Better performance, less dust
New brake fluid - good idea
Brake lines - all four corners will improve brake feel a bit.

Unless you are taking your car on the race circuit I would stop at that. Upgraded brake pads and new fluid will give you all the braking performance you will ever need. Ask yourself have you ever suffered brake fade when driving your car? No? then the standard brakes are doing just fine for your style of driving. I know I have put a big brake kit on my car, but then I do take it out on tracks. Having said that my standard brakes (and the small version at that on a 1992 car) coped with mountain passes and the Nurburgring with only EBC red stuff pads. They never faded, even though when we stopped at the end of 20km "forest stage" in France, all four corners were pouring with smoke from the pads!

Big brakes are a waste of time and money otherwise, unless you want to do it just to improve the looks, but it is an expensive way to do it. Cross drilled rotors will not make any real difference to brake performance, they just look trick.
 
#5 ·
Big brakes are a waste of time and money otherwise, unless you want to do it just to improve the looks, but it is an expensive way to do it. Cross drilled rotors will not make any real difference to brake performance, they just look trick.
Stuart is this an admission that your brake upgrade wasn't really worth what you laid out for the difference in performance from a simple fitting of EBC ceramic pads?

Please be honest :D
 
#3 · (Edited)
While that is obviously good sound advice, you can get all 4 cross-drilled rotors from parts.com for a bit over $300, and they look amazing...

Our cars are hardly all about practicality in the first place, and you're already going to have to eat the labor costs to change the pads anyway, so why not just do the rotors too while you're in there?

The cross-drilled ones pay you back in spades when it comes to looks...
 
#7 ·
Chris
Thanks. I was thinking about skimming or changing the rotors for new ones at some stage as I do feel they judder a bit under heavy braking - something I thought (?) might be caused by worn or uneven rotors. You're right would be best doign at the same time as my new EBC ceramic pads and a completely brake fluid change.

Other than looks, which are not going to be seen with my AMG-style wheels, is there any improvement getting cross-drilled rotors (US$300) versus stock (US$???)?

Cheers

Alan
 
#9 ·
Stick with what you have Alan - I have used ceramic pads since their inception and in those days cross drilling was necessary to vent the gas. My current car I fitted Akebono (I rate better than RedStuff) on vented solids and they are great, so a good saving there!
You will see nothing behind your wheels as you say, so save your money.
If you do go cross drilled, note that the SA discs will not fit your car, and be careful not to buy cheap ones that are solids just drilled for the effect - they crack.
 
#10 ·
Thanks Hal.
SA disks: noted. Think I'm erring on the side of not cross-drilling - have read a previous post of yours on cheap drilled solids cracking - thanks.

Do you think it's worth changing stock solid discs for vented solids or just put new stock discs on with new pads (likley RedStuff as I apparently have a local dealer in Hong Kong)

Cheers

Alan

ps. Handsome hound you have but where exactly is the petrol a rip-off (almost everywhere out of the States and Middle East)
 
#12 ·
Alan

Standard disks are vented already. I would stick with standard ones. Hal and I are in the UK, hence why I have done an LPG conversion on my 600, 49p a litre at the moment instead of 100+p for ordinary unleaded, 106+ for super (which I like to give the old girl if i am going to cane her, especially for the Nurburgring, cheap insurance for your engine)
 
#14 ·
LPG: I hear that. Father-in-law's Land Rover Discovery is converted and goes from Northhamption to North Wales on a single charge. Would do it in Hong Kong on my SL500 but Transport Dept (Govt) won't permit it (wouldn't pass it's annual test if done without their permission).

Cheers

Alan
 
#13 ·
Honestly, I went from solid disks to Silver Arrow drilled ones and I am happy I did it especially when it's soaking wet on the road: they dry faster and collect (and keep) far less water that solids in those conditions together with the fact that they can get rid of heat faster.
From then on every car of mine will always have drilled disks.

Cheers.
 
#19 ·
Hello Chaps

I think one of the things SK hasn't mentioned he is running about 50hp than stock and thrashes his car within an inch of its live around the country lanes near where he lives.... Been in it when he dives 2000KG of car into a corner and one of the back wheels comes off the ground its well just a weeee bit scary or fun depedning on your view :) ..... and that was with his standard brakes. I'm running close to 100 HP over stock and TechTune is running even more... I like the idea of stopping......... we have or are in the process of going for the upgrade. Who says size doesn't matter. ;)

J
 
#20 ·
Thanks Chris

Refurbishing the original stock discs (rotors): point taken - you are right - good idea to get new ones if I am there anyway.

For the standard / stock OEM setup on my car (no Brembo or Silver Arrow discs and don't want to change callipers etc) can anyone point me to any websites for replacement discs. I'm planning on fitting EBC redstuff ceramic or EBC greenstuff pads - does this limit me to any specific type of disc?

I quite like the idea of putting non-solid rotors on (for looks as well as better performance) - any views as to whether I should go for dimpled, cross-drilled, slotted or combinations of these.

Am I right in assuming all 'performance discs' are ventilated (sandwiches steel rather than solid) nowadays and if so am I better off going for ventilated discs rather than OEM-style solid discs? I assume the ventilated discs are thicker (28mm think?) compared with the 9m OEM discs? If so does one need to change the callipers if fitting ventilated discs?

You may have gathered I'm not that clued up on modern brakes (they were all drums when I last took a set of brakes apart!) so all help apprecaited. There is some info on Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brakes) but alas not specific enough.

Thanks again in advance

Alan

For
 
#23 ·
Thanks Chris

Refurbishing the original stock discs (rotors): point taken - you are right - good idea to get new ones if I am there anyway.

For the standard / stock OEM setup on my car (no Brembo or Silver Arrow discs and don't want to change callipers etc) can anyone point me to any websites for replacement discs. I'm planning on fitting EBC redstuff ceramic or EBC greenstuff pads - does this limit me to any specific type of disc?

I quite like the idea of putting non-solid rotors on (for looks as well as better performance) - any views as to whether I should go for dimpled, cross-drilled, slotted or combinations of these.

Am I right in assuming all 'performance discs' are ventilated (sandwiches steel rather than solid) nowadays and if so am I better off going for ventilated discs rather than OEM-style solid discs? I assume the ventilated discs are thicker (28mm think?) compared with the 9m OEM discs? If so does one need to change the callipers if fitting ventilated discs?

You may have gathered I'm not that clued up on modern brakes (they were all drums when I last took a set of brakes apart!) so all help apprecaited. There is some info on Wikipedia (Disc brake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) but alas not specific enough.

Thanks again in advance

Alan

For

You don't have to have Brembo calipers or other components in order to use Brembo cross-drilled rotors. They make them in every conceivable size.

As long as you buy the correct size, it will work just fine.
 
#21 ·
I would get the EBC redstuff ceramic, because they cut down the level of dust generated and are a much better pad than standard. They come covered in a special bedding in compound that will treat any disk they are fitted to, so no need for special disks. Your OEM front disks will be ventilated already, not solid, so no worries about the callipers. Cross drilled is generally reckoned to have very little beneficial effect on a car, apart from looks, (they are great on a motorbike where the disks are exposed to a lot of water), the best thing to go for is either solid (if general road use) or slotted (with only a few slots 4 or 6 is ample) which will help de-glaze the pad and clear any gas build up between pad and disk.
 
#24 ·
Alan
i am worried that you are labouring too hard on this brake thing!

The basic fact is that you already have 'performance' discs! Mercedes are not stupid, the SL500 has been well tested and the brakes they fitted to your model are in fact fine. I agree with Stuart, go for Red Stuff pads (I prefer Akebono) and unless you are racing or endurance rallying, then what you have will be fine around HK.

By all means fit fancy ones, but really, the amount of people who notice and even appreciate what you have done will be minimal. Main thing is That if you do fit them you must make sure that the diam, thickness and height of the discs fit your existing calipers, or you must make sure you get new calipers to suit the discs you opt for.

IMO what will look much nicer than fancy discs are the calipers powder coated a nice colour - especially if you use Red Stuff which will not blacken them.

For what its worth!
 
#25 ·
Hal
Thanks for input - much apprecaited. Yes I agree I am struggling a little.

Problem is Hong Kong is not like UK or the US - there are no specialist shops (brakes or otherwise) one can drive in, choose the gadgets, hand over the cash and drive out half a day later with said gadgets installed. Parts have to be ordered over the internet, shipped to my home (takes weeks) then explained (my Chinese is not that good I'd add) to a mechanic. If things are ordered wrongly or don't fit then one could be without wheels for days whilst the whole lot is put back together again.

I'm fixing (?) on the EBC Redstuff Ceramic pads all around and changing all discs for new (whether I go OEM stock or performance is still up for debate). At the same time I'll purge fluid and put in new DOT-4. Changing the callipers sounds just too tricky in HK and I agree is over the top for my driving / HK roads.

Powder coating original calipers a nice bright red colour sounds like a cunning plan if I can find somewhere to do it in HK.

Cheers

Alan
 
#26 ·
At the same time I'll purge fluid and put in new DOT-4.
Cheers

Alan
This is one of the most important jobs to do.

Brake fade and a spongy pedal creeps up so slowly that most owners don't even notice it until it gets bad.
When dirty and contaminated brake fluid is changed braking once again feels positive and instant.

If new pads or discs/rotors are being changed or worked on, purging and replacing the brake fluid is a fairly quick and easy job.
 
#27 ·
Alan
Good, you are now being realistic! Redstuff and OEM discs are good - at least you will know that what you order will be the right parts.
Now, probably the most worthwhile job you could, nay, should do is change the flexible hoses into the calipers with braided steel ones. This should be an easy job in HK, and will take away a high portion of the 'spongy' feel you might have on the pedal.
 
#28 · (Edited by Moderator)
R129 Brakes

Hi i purchase a 1990 SL500 a couple weeks ago Iam want to put new brakes pads on.But i want the ones that don't create much dust . And i need to know which pads is the best to put on and how hard is it to install brake pads on a SL500 .

RedLiner EDIT: Rather than start yet another brake topic I have moved your post here. If you look through the preceeding posts you will find plenty of advice.
 
#29 ·
Hi i purchase a 1990 SL500 a couple weeks ago Iam want to put new brakes pads on.But i want the ones that don't create much dust . And i need to know which pads is the best to put on and how hard is it to install brake pads on a SL500 .

RedLiner EDIT: Rather than start yet another brake topic I have moved your post here. If you look through the preceeding posts you will find plenty of advice.
Akebono and EBC Redstuff pads are the recommended products around here.

I went with the Akebono's because from the other members' reports they seem to generate the least amount of dust. Porterfield is another manufacturer, but everyone says their pads are comparable to EBC and Akebonos, yet they cost 3+ times as much.

While you are in there doing the pads, you should flush the brake system and replace your 18yr old rubber flex hoses with braided stainless. You can get a set of 4 for sub-$100, and the pedal feel will improve significantly.

Hope this helps.
 
#30 ·
Does anyone have recommendations for braided stainless brake lines for a '96 SL500? Has anyone used the Rennsport brake lines currently available on eBay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Parts-Accessories___Stainless-Steel-Brake-Lines-96-97-Mercedez-Benz-SL500_W0QQitemZ310094541423QQddnZPartsQ20Q26Q20AccessoriesQQddiZ2811QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item310094541423&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245&_trkparms=65%3A10|39%3A1|240%3A1318)
 
#31 ·
Hi askay you might have a look at this EBAY SHOP to see if they have something for you. I bought from them drilled/slotted/zinc plated performance rotors for my CL 500 and they are wonderful. They also have a chat line service and their staff is always very helpful :).

Cheers.
 
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