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Discussion Starter #41
I got the exhaust manifolds removed from the head real quick yesterday. No drama there. Interestingly, the original gaskets have the MB star stamped on them as well as the Elring logo. Apparently Elring is the OEM for those.
I also hooked up my new Noko G15000 battery charger to the battery in the car. So far, that charger is bringing that battery back from the dead nicely. It’s a sad thing, that battery. I bought it brand new the day the car died as an attempt to get the car to start. It has been sitting ever since. Thankfully, that Bosch battery has a 3 year free replacement warranty in case I can’t get it to revive fully.




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Interestingly, the original gaskets have the MB star stamped on them as well as the Elring logo. Apparently Elring is the OEM for those.
Yup, Elring is OEM for head gaskets on some engines, including the M104 and OM602/603. I believe Victor-Reinz is OEM for the 4.2L/5.0L M119 head gaskets; but Elring is OEM for the 6.0L M119. Go figure.
 

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Very interesting project there! Any clue yet as to what caused the initial failure? By the way, the car looks VERY good to be so old in Upstate New York. Any secret to keeping it so nice?

Cheers and good luck with the rest of the project!

Kim G
Redding, CA
But also, Boston, MA, where the fight against rust is unending.
 

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Very interesting project there! Any clue yet as to what caused the initial failure? By the way, the car looks VERY good to be so old in Upstate New York. Any secret to keeping it so nice?



Cheers and good luck with the rest of the project!



Kim G

Redding, CA

But also, Boston, MA, where the fight against rust is unending.
If you are referring to the OP's original head gasket, the failure is caused by a design flaw in the gasket.

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Discussion Starter #45
Very interesting project there! Any clue yet as to what caused the initial failure? By the way, the car looks VERY good to be so old in Upstate New York. Any secret to keeping it so nice?

Cheers and good luck with the rest of the project!

Kim G
Redding, CA
But also, Boston, MA, where the fight against rust is unending.
As some others have pointed out, it looks like the gasket was starting to allow coolant to "seep" into #5 and 6 for some time even though I never noticed a loss of coolant, smoke from the tailpipe or drive-ability issues. The car never overheated either, even during it's final moments. I believe that as soon as I turned off the key, that is when the inrush of coolant happened and basically hydrolocked the motor.

Sadly, the body on the car looks terrible now with the clearcoat pealing off everywhere and some spots of surface rust. The key, if anything though, is that I bought the car with 70K on it from (basically) the original owner who lived in Florida. The car was immaculate when I bought it. 4 years in NY took quite a toll but the undercarriage is still in great shape.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
Got the block surface cleaned up over the weekend. I should be able to order parts this week!




This thing is going to need a good acid flush when I’ve got it running again. There are some coolant passages that are nasty!


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Discussion Starter #47 (Edited)
Yup, Elring is OEM for head gaskets on some engines, including the M104 and OM602/603. I believe Victor-Reinz is OEM for the 4.2L/5.0L M119 head gaskets; but Elring is OEM for the 6.0L M119. Go figure.
So between choosing the Elring head gasket kit for $63 (FCPEuro) or the MB kit for $115 (Pelican parts), what to do?
Can you tell from the pic which is which? :)

 

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When it comes to seals and gaskets on German cars, I always go OE without exception.

Nothing worse than having to do the same job twice, especially if you're not getting paid on round 2.
 

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Discussion Starter #49
The original gaskets literally say Elring on them. I would call that OE, no? Anyway, that's what I'm proceeding with.
 

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The original gaskets literally say Elring on them. I would call that OE, no? Anyway, that's what I'm proceeding with.
Ask that question to the M103 guys re. Bosch cap and rotors. You can buy the Bosch branded stuff and have it last 6 months to a year if you're lucky. OR buy the OE MB cap and rotor made by Bosch and have it last years.
 

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Hope everybody's doing fine!
My personal experience with the blasted HG job, that was 7 years ago or so, everybody said use Victor-Reinz, I did, lasted about 3-4 years, then after 16K miles it started leaking at #6 passenger side USA, just oil leaking for now , no mixing of coolant, Yet!, some said John you didn't torque the head bolts right, I thought I did but then again had a crappy torque wrench.
What I don't get, if I did a lousy job why would it last 16K miles then start leaking? I just figured it was the bad Victor-Reinz gasket!
next time I'll get it from our dealer here, from what I've learned from this forum I need the updated thicker gasket that that address's the weak point at #6.:thumbsup:
 

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OE and OEM are not necessarily the same thing. Just because it came from the same manufacturer that supplies to MB does not mean the part is identical.

The only exception would be in those rare cases where the manufacturer grounds off the MB star to sell directly in their own packaging. Example Pierburg diesel vacuum pumps.

As for the headgasket example stated by John, AFAIK only MB reinforced their gasket to address the issue. I have never seen a properly installed updated MB head gasket (that means machine shop time to check the head) with brand new head bolts go.

As for the others like Victor Reinz, your guess is as good as mine.
 

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OE and OEM are not necessarily the same thing.
These are indeed different. OE means "Genuine Mercedes" from a dealership. Even if you buy an OE part from an aftermarket vendor, it originally came from an MB dealer/warehouse first. OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) is the manufacturer who makes the OE part. You'll only get OEM from aftermarket vendors, never the MB dealer. A lot of people think OE and OEM mean the same thing, but that is not accurate.


Just because it came from the same manufacturer that supplies to MB does not mean the part is identical.
Correct. Most of the time, if the same mfr sells a part via aftermarket channels, it may be identical with the MB star logo ground off. But they could also be parts which failed to meet more-stringent MB specs and these "seconds" end up in the aftermarket channel at a lower price. Or they could be truly identical. There's no way to know for sure. That said, the OEM item is likely going to be better than anything else except OE.

Non-OEM would be third-party mfr's that are basically copying the original design, maybe as cheap as possible... think APA/URO/FEQ. There are also some aftermarket brands that stick "Germany" into their name or logo in a thinly-veiled attempt to make you think the part is made in Germany, when it isn't. Meyle and ACM are two that I can think of offhand. If there is no COO (Country of Origin) label on the part or package, it's safe to assume the worst.

Be careful out there.

:|
 

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Discussion Starter #57
Well, I seemed to have stirred the pot! You guys got to keep in mind, I have no idea what the future plans of this car are are or how long I’m going to keep it. It’s never going to be some unicorn that draws the high bid on bring-a-trailer or anything. I don’t need any lessons on OE vs OEM. I am quite familiar. I’m not some 17 year old with his first car.
As luck would have it (or not have it), when I went to total up my orders yesterday, the Elring head gasket kit went out of stock, on backorder, and was automatically removed from my cart. I checked around again and ECS, Pelican and FCP now all said out of stock!
MB it is.
 

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Discussion Starter #58
I also wanted to add, I spent almost $500 on parts yesterday. I bought all of the little bits needed to get the motor in tip top shape including new motor mounts and a trans mount. God knows what I’ve spent between this car and the 95 wagon we had. I have no illusions about old MB ownership, which frankly, you guys should know based on my history here.
 

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Nahh, nobody is knocking you! Just providing good council. Looks like the W124 gods we're looking out for you.
For difficult jobs, I personally want to do and be done, i try to remove as many variables as possible. As I'm getting older and my time is the most valuable commodity.
 

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Ever wonder what would happen if either the offending oil return line was welded shut or a channel was fabricated to route the oil past the parting line so it never gets near the HG again? I suspect problem solved rather than the "Band-aid" of the latest Mercedes gasket which eventually will fail again.
 
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