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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Happy Holidays Everyone!

Questions:

1) Anyone know which PDF file it is in the CD manual that goes through Injector replacement? (I hate that darned interface... I really need to make those PDFs searchable.... Maybe I just don't know how to use the CD yet. I have copied it to my HD, and don't use the CD.)
NEVERMIND I Found this: Engine/107/M117_45/074-215.pdf

2) Is this normal to see injectors so filthy? See pics.

3) Anyone know which PDF I should refer to for checking the fuel tank strainer (and any filters)?

THANKS!
Mike

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My Black Friday Morning - Stayed up most of the night working on brakes and driving. Now SWMBO is back from Black Friday shopping and says I can do whatever I want today after taking care of the kids this morning. BACK TO THE CAR! INJECTOR TIME!
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HISTORY OF LAST NIGHT'S "successful" work:
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Well, after not learning my lesson with the brakes (disassembling caliper halves), and "finishing" that caliper rebuild job (not yet doing: driver side front caliper rebuild, replacing pads, replacing rotors), I got the car back on the road last night (still not through inspection yet though). The car stops with all four tires now, maybe not straight yet but it seems the passenger front caliper and disc need to be cooked up a little. The braking was straightening out with some hard driving last night. I could see a little steam/smoke coming off that rotor. Something is burning off. Dirt, dust, cooked up brake pad, what not. So that "problem" has moved lower on my priority list.

I was fortunate that my injector wasn't leaking on top of the engine while I was able to do all of my driving. The car had nice power, and seemed to be running really well as it warmed up. Of course I did experience a brand new problem though. The car stalled and repeated to stall as i was getting ready to make a right turn at a light. It was almost as if the power brakes or steering caused the car to stall. I started the car several times at that light, backed up, stalled, several times. The problem kind of just went away though. I'm thinking it may be the fuel strainer as we saw in a recent post. But that car was a 560sl, one of the latest 107s, and mine is one of the earliest. So I don't have any idea if my setup is the same.


When I got done with all that, with the spirited driving, and the boxes of parts in the trunk, I thought it might be time to clean up the trunk for less "jostling" back there. I saw the spark plug wire clips I bought, and decided I should just put them on instead of tossing them in the car tools/parts cabinet. There was a lot of spark plug wire moving, but I was sure not to touch anything related to the injectors, knowing I was very lucky to not have that leak. Safety, plus the terrible smell of evaporating gasoline really make messing with the car suck. It requires a shower after every time I mess with the car. So just before heading to bed I wanted to take the car for one more spin to make sure I didn't mess up anything while messing with the wires.

So now for the INJECTORS. A super awesome member here sent me a set of used injectors, and seals. So I should surely have everything I need to at least get started on this job. Once again, I decided to NOT read the manual first. Now that I've pulled the injectors, and see how filthy they are, and see the seal came out and looks torn on the rear injector. This looks much messier than I expected. I hope it's not a problem if crud gets in there, because there surely is crud down them there holes. See the pictures of the injectors I pulled out. Ugh!

While I'm messing with fuels stuff, it seems I should:
- maybe test the flow on the injectors, and find 8 good ones from the 16 I have
- check all the fuel filters/strainers.

Then again, I may only have one day. Only about 3.5 hours of daylight left. Don't want to spend the whole weekend on the car. I better get moving!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
One more Q:
- The throttle rod with the spring that was in the way of the bolt for my rear-most driver side injector (only driver side removed so far)... It looks like maybe there's supposed to be a bushing on there there's disintegrated on my car. You can see the rod in the second picture. It looks like the yellow-ish stuff is the remains of a bushing. Is that right?

If so, I guess I better add that to the list of parts to replace.
 

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1972 350sl (European)
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One more Q:
- The throttle rod with the spring that was in the way of the bolt for my rear-most driver side injector (only driver side removed so far)... It looks like maybe there's supposed to be a bushing on there there's disintegrated on my car. You can see the rod in the second picture. It looks like the yellow-ish stuff is the remains of a bushing. Is that right?

If so, I guess I better add that to the list of parts to replace.
For $1.13 ea, you can get new bushings/seats for the throttle rod on the manifold and firewall ends (p/n 1263000085).
On my '72, there are small nylon washers on the insides of each rod end (against the spring and intake bushing). They look to act more as spacers than reducing any friction.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Welp. After investigating the way the injectors are put together, seeing that 7 of the 8 extras that I had are rebuilds having clamps on the side of the hose that connects to the injector, and several of those hoses being rotted. I cut one of the hoses off. I realized that most likely my leak was coming from the hose connection. I also noticed that 4 of my 8 injectors would spin freely indicating a very loose connection to that old injector hose. And my injectors are not rebuilds, so they had no clamps at the bottom. Hmmm...

Then I realized that the injector seal / rebuild kits I have don't seem to fit my injectors quite right (python 200-120). So... here I was with a car torn apart and probably more than a week of waiting on parts.

So back to my old methodoly of keeping the car mobile. I put that krusty seal back on the rear-most injector, put clamps on the injectors that spun, vacuumed out the injector holes as best as I could, and put it all back together.

No leaking fuel anymore (for now anyway... it was intermittent). Time for another ride I guess. :)

Time to order:
- Injector seal kits (find out which ones are right for my car)
- Throttle rod bushing (I've got metal on metal and lots of play in that rod.)
- Tierods
- Maybe send out the full extra set of injectors for a rebuild so I'm ready next time I tear the fuel rail apart.

I'll be in the car driving! :)
 

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1975 450SL
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There is a sort of 'ball and socket' arrangement for the throttle rod bushings at each end. The firewall end goes in first, and the other end second. There are springs to hold everything in place, and a washer and spring pin arrangement to make sure nothing falls out if something breaks. The balls and their metal liner bushings are about $3.00 per set at the dealer. Less online.

I had the ones on my car go, and had rigged up amething with some split fuel line and tie-wraps, until I found out how it was SUPPOSED to go together. It sorta worked until I got the right stuff.

Good luck,
Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #6
There is a sort of 'ball and socket' arrangement for the throttle rod bushings at each end. The firewall end goes in first, and the other end second. There are springs to hold everything in place, and a washer and spring pin arrangement to make sure nothing falls out if something breaks. The balls and their metal liner bushings are about $3.00 per set at the dealer. Less online.

I had the ones on my car go, and had rigged up amething with some split fuel line and tie-wraps, until I found out how it was SUPPOSED to go together. It sorta worked until I got the right stuff.

Good luck,
Scott
Yeah. I don't know the right term. I need to open up the EPC. It looks like I just need a bushing right now. All the ball-joint sockets seem OK right now. I only noticed it because I had to remove that bar to get to my injector bolt. To take off the bar, I had to first remove an L (or Z) -shaped piece of metal that looked like a safety device that had to be removed before I could compress the spring enough to remove the rod. I would think the bushing would:
1) center the rod and keep it from having too much "play"
2) hopefully keep down the metal-to-metal contact that is going on right now.

The car drives fine right now... actually a lot better than any time in the last nearly 6 months I've owned it. Trying to figure out what to do with the rest of my day now:
(A) Go get some freeze12 in hopes of not burning up the AC compressor and hope it works.
(B) Mess around with the wipers... looks like the wiper motor I received from a 75 SLC only works on low and med (not high), and doesn't return the wipers to a resting position. That's not much better than the current setup where I only have one speed and it doesn't return the wipers. Hmmm...

Freeze12 I guess.
Then order some parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
I don't think I can complain about acceleration. It doesn't seem so bad, looking like definitely less than 9 seconds for 0-60. Seems to be running smoothly.

I do think I hear some tapping in the motor. I should get someone to check the motor and the timing chain.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Valves probably need adjusting.
Should I be worried about any potential catastrophes?

In my mind (or maybe imagination), I think the clatter gets quieter as the car warms up. I think I really like the way it runs when all warmed up. Suspension is becoming my greatest concern, which I believe is a sign of progress (very) slow, but sure.
 

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It Is What It Is, Dude
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Should I be worried about any potential catastrophes?

In my mind (or maybe imagination), I think the clatter gets quieter as the car warms up. I think I really like the way it runs when all warmed up. Suspension is becoming my greatest concern, which I believe is a sign of progress (very) slow, but sure.


As the engine warms and all the bits expand the valve lash will tighten. You'll notice exhaust valves always have a looser lash value.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
As the engine warms and all the bits expand the valve lash will tighten. You'll notice exhaust valves always have a looser lash value.
... And that's why I should take an automotive class if I ever get the time. I'll learn what "lash" is now that you've pointed me to that topic. Thank you!
 

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'72 350SL, '85 300D, '98 E320, '19 Subaru Outback (sold '14 GLK250)
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My '72 is also a bit noisy when cold. Also had a ticking noise. Timing chain had already been changed.

So, adjusted valves, no change -they were already almost at spec. I switched to a synthetic oil, and that seemed to help a lot. It is quite noticeable now, that when I use the car, say every other day, it is not noisy. But if I leave it for a few weeks, it is noisy at first start up. I guess the oil initially leaves a film over everything which helps on regular starts. It my just be in my mind, but the synthetic seems to reduce noise. I have been using Castrol Syntec 10W40, but think I will switch to Mobil 1 15W50 seeing car is only summer driven and it has relatively high ZDDP which reduces wear. Castrol don't/won't say what level they have, but probably low.

The ticking noise was likely coming from the driver's side exhaust. When exhaust was out for a tranny front seal replacement, I had bought new seals for the exhaust-manifold joint and that eliminated the ticking that occurred until the pipes heated up.

That spring on the throttle rod - I have a spare - it is down in the vee between the cylinder banks :( It helps a lot to replace the plastic balls and washers so as to get all the slack out of the throttle linkage.

I am constantly fighting fuel leaks at injectors. But, I was using 5/16" 150psi SAE injector hose. But just bought a meter of 7.5mm hose from dealer for C$28! Cheaper than buying 4 kits, because I already have clamps. They keep changing the part number for this stuff. I was supplied 230-476-87-26. Classic Centre confirmed that this is now the right stuff - doesn't look as good as the SAE stuff, but will give it a try.

BTW - replacing those top-hat seals may help eliminate small vacuum leaks, which may help with idle.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
BTW - replacing those top-hat seals may help eliminate small vacuum leaks, which may help with idle.
Top-hat = the rubber seal at the bottom of the injector. Right?

I was wondering about the importance of a tight seal there. My injector bolts seem to tighten almost all the way down before getting any friction.

I'm pretty sure I had the wrong injector seal kit because it did not include the kind I have, a top-hat shaped rubber bushing. Instead, it contained a plastic injector cover (that would not slide all the way over the injector because there's a collar at farther from the tip). It also contained a rubber o-ring that fit over the plastic piece. If I could get the plastic piece past the collar, it might make a nice fit.

I decided to retreat on the project without further knowledge because (a) it appears I have the wrong kit, and (b) three of the four top-hats remained in the engine from the driver side rail I pulled out. I tried grabbing one with some needle-nose plyers but got worried about the top-hat falling apart and having pieces fall into the cylinder.

I did my very best to suck everything out of the holes and clean up the injectors, but I have to assume several small items fell in there and didn't get sucked back out. I don't like that too much, but watcha gonna do. Fortunately the car runs well, and I have no fuel leaks.

Time for a video of my tapping. Maybe try the mighty-vac for a vacuum test.

Still want to pull that fuel tank strainer and put in a new fuel filter too... among a thousand other things. :)
 

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1986 560SL: '84 500SL: '84 280SL 5 speed: other 107s
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No more phone pics or videos. PLEASE. They hurt my eyes. Use a real camera.

I don't know what you mean by something blocking the pintel covers going on. Soak them in hot water and they should go on with a snap. The lack of clamp pressure indicates the large rubber seal is hard and compressed. Need new ones.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No more phone pics or videos. PLEASE. They hurt my eyes. Use a real camera.

I don't know what you mean by something blocking the pintel covers going on. Soak them in hot water and they should go on with a snap. The lack of clamp pressure indicates the large rubber seal is hard and compressed. Need new ones.
Sorry about the pics. Of course I just posted 5 more items from my blackberry in the other thread. Sorry. I guess I've got to go get myself a garage camera. I've thought about stealing my wife's camera for a few pics here and there, but that would probably just rub the car-time in her face even more. I'm sure it wouldn't be good for her to see me taking 100 times as many pictures of the car as the kids. The fact that this is research would probably be lost as she sees tons of car pictures as she scrolls through family photos, not to mention the possibility of grease on her camera. Definitely need a garage camera. I just always have that blackberry with me. It SOOOO easy.

I really want to go get an injector and the seal kits I have to show you a video of the plastic cover (pintel?) not sliding on... but it would be a blackberry phone video. I certainly don't want to piss you off (or make you blind) when you've helped me so much.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Figured out the injector seal kit

Got the cover on with a little bit of force. Thanks for the tip! (Pun intended).

I snapped some pics with the wife's camera, over 5 MB per picture. Took forever to load, but Benzworld seems to have down-sampled them for me (easier than trying to figure out how to do it myself). I hope they are better quality (when I go to view this post).

Here are a few questions:


1) What's the extra tip cover in this kit for? Wide extended hole shown in second picture, not slid all the way on an injector.

2) The kit doesn't include any of the cream colored bushings shown in the second and third pictures, but only on the rebuilt injectors, not on the factor bosch ones, or the ones in my car. Are these seals needed? I'd assume not, but I've assumed too much already. I can't help but wonder why none of my car's injectors (or the one non-rebuilt injector I received with the extra set) don't have this ring.

3) Any tricks to removing the old fuel strainer from the top of the old injectors? Seems like something I'd be smarter to not try as I'd be very scared of dropping some parts into the injector and ruining it. I seriously doubt I'll attempt this task.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I thought I was forgetting a question, probably the most important of all:

4) Any tricks to removing the old top-hats if they don't come out with the injectors? I think all the ones that are currently in the car are one-piece soft rubber (as opposed to what I have with a hard sleeve and rubber bushing/washer) and seem to be all set to fall apart. I'm a little worried about all that junk falling in places it shouldn't be.

I do have an attachment for my shop vac that fits in the injector holes, but not past the top hats, and it's not small enough to have in there while using needle-nose pliers.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
Once again, I can't figure out how to find the part I'm looking for in the EPC

That spring on the throttle rod - I have a spare - it is down in the vee between the cylinder banks :( It helps a lot to replace the plastic balls and washers so as to get all the slack out of the throttle linkage.
I'm all good on the spring side. It's the side where the "shaft" (per the EPC) fits into the tab on the manifold. It seems there should be a bushing in there that takes the slack out of the throttle. If you happen to know how I can find this part, I'd love to add it to my order list.

See the TWO EPC pictures below. The Control.jpg link is a picture of the rod/shaft. I accidentally uploaded it as a PNG

THANKS!
Mike
 

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There's another one of the balls with the metal bushing that fits in there. (part # 185 on the diagram) It took me a while to figure that one out, too. The Idiot Previous Owner had put some plumbing parts and a large nut in there, to make do:eek:. That was one of my first 'adventures' with this car. After the cooling system fracas. With the air barb threaded in place of the broken fitting on the reservoir tank. :eek:

Keep up the work: You'll be rewarded in satisfaction of a trouble well shot.
Scott
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks a ton for the part number RadioTek!

I've got another phone video, but I guess I won't post it, just describe what was happening. So after fixing the driver side bank of injectors, I thought I saw a little leak on the passenger side. It looked intermittent if any flow at all. Today I fired up the car just to assure the battery was OK after all the headlight tests I did last night to make sure my fog light wires are functional (before sending payment for a set... as mine are currently missing). I opened the hood to take a look at the injectors, and the second injector back was squirting like one of those urinating cherubs in one of those weird fountains (not like someone with an enlarged prostate). I could submit a video of this, but it might piss off Rowdie or make him go blind. :p :)


Oh wow! And i was thinking I'd try to go to DMV tomorrow if I get the time! I quickly (turned off the car,) pulled the air filter and slapped some clamps on the injectors that I assumed were OK yesterday (because they would not twist). Boy was I wrong yesterday. I put on three more clamps on the bottom of the injectors, and the problem is again "solved". I didn't even pull the passenger side rail which looks a lot easier to pull than the driver side (only two connections instead of about five or so). There's only one un-clamped injector is the front one on the driver side that looks brand new, surely a Bosch replacement. I tried to put a clamp on it and quickly gave up because the screw didn't go in easily. It was an "Aaahhh.... whatever" moment. The good thing is it appears I no longer have any fuel leaks. I was worried the clamp at the bottom of the injector fuel hose would not cut the mustard, with maybe some metal in there that would obstruct the hose tightening down. It makes me think "why wasn't that method suggested earlier?" It's so darned easy... at least when you have extra fuel line clamps laying around. I can see that it's not the "right" way to fix the problem or to "restore" the car, but it should be clear to everyone that I'm going to take any reasonable shortcut possible to get this car back on the road inexpensively.

Back to the garage...
My 2 year old son was trying to help, sticking Philips head screwdrivers in any screw he could find on the car. I as nicely as possible had to take the screwdriver(s) away. He just turned two, but seems to like the garage already. He certainly doesn't mind getting dirty. Why would he? He doesn't have to clean himself up. :)
 
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