[oddodaoddo]

Hello!

I am contemplating buying a 1970 280SE that came up for sale locally. It is a second owner but they have the maintenance records back to purchase. The car has some rust spots that the previous owner took to a body shop for "cheap" so they will need to be re-done. Interior is spotless, car has 90,000 miles on it, engine has some oil on the lines/hoses but in general it looks like a clean car. I am somewhat mechanically inclined, meaning, I can do oil changes, spark plugs and I have a friend who can help me with breaks etc. Not afraid to get my hands dirty. This would be my commuter three times per week and it is OK if it does not start on occasion or it has to spend a few days waiting for a part - I have a different vehicle I can use on those days. Primarily I am buying this car because I love the way it looks and I like the idea of working on my own car on the weekend and learning all the skills.

One question I have is - how expensive are the parts? Is it going to cost me an arm and a leg to do the maintenance even if I do it myself or with friends' help?

Thanks!
Oddo

 

[Grubeguy]

Parts are cheap, plenty and available, but you'll have to search. I've had good luck with Napa, Autozone, etc, and with online sources. The purists here will tell you to go to the Cla$$ic Center only (dealership), but their prices are stupid, and all you get is Mercedes "approved" for the extra outlay.

I like eBay for stuff too - I've had great luck with a bunch of vendors there, for new old stock, or repro parts...

Is the car a V8 or straight 6?

 

[oddodaoddo]

Parts are cheap, plenty and available, but you'll have to search. I've had good luck with Napa, Autozone, etc, and with online sources. The purists here will tell you to go to the Cla$$ic Center only (dealership), but their prices are stupid, and all you get is Mercedes "approved" for the extra outlay.

I like eBay for stuff too - I've had great luck with a bunch of vendors there, for new old stock, or repro parts...

Is the car a V8 or straight 6?

Thank you for replying! It is a straight six. Are there any special things I should be looking for? I am taking it for a pre-purchase inspection to a shop that does older European cars but it is always good to know what these cars suffer from and ask...

 

[patrykrebisz]

This is what i had to fix/change in my "pristine" 1973 280 in the past few months of owning the car. Granted, many of the things are cosmetic or because i just wanted to learn about cars.

$ = cost what other modern cars would cost
$$/$$$ = cost more (in my opinion) because the part is rare

engine:
-- battery replaced $
-- battery tray replaced $$
-- exhaust manifold heat riser replaced $$
-- heat riser thermostat replaced $$
-- cold air intake hose fixed $$
-- engine to air filter hose replaced $$
-- shiftier bushings replaced $$$ (because of labor)
-- power steering belt replaced $
-- carburetor replaced $$$
-- carburetor adjusted
-- carburetor choke connected $$$ (because of labor - in early days i didn't know much)
-- choke adjusted
-- radiator over-fill hose replaced $
-- radiator cap replaced $
-- spark plugs replaced $
-- spark plug wires replaced $
-- heater valve replaced $$
-- heater valve wires fixed
-- timing adjusted
-- valves adjusted
-- valve gasket changed $
-- AC compressor replaced $$
-- AC dryer replaced $
-- transmission linkage adjusted

seals:
-- front and back windshield seals sealed $
-- door seal on left rear side replaced $ (or $$$ if from Mercedes)
-- weather seal near the hood replaced $$

chassis:
-- underside partially undercoated $
-- rust spots fixed in the trunk $
-- sound deadening all around the car $$
-- rust spots in the engine bay fixed $
-- hood liner added $
-- driver side rust fixed $
-- floor mats added $
-- trunk floor mat added $
-- side markers fixed $$

undercarriage:
-- tires replaced $
-- rear stabilizer replaced $
-- rubber exhaust o-rings replaced $
-- idler arm bushings replaced $
-- drag link replaced $
-- steering damper replaced $

doors:
-- driver door interiors oiled
-- door check straps oiled
-- door hinges lubed $
-- rear window crank replaced $

interior:
-- doom light replaced $$
-- after market speaker grills added $
-- under dash cardboard maintained $
-- rubber floor mats added $
-- attached mug holder to the center console $
-- attached mug holder to the rear seats $
-- vents labels added
-- sun viziers replaced $$
-- de goo all interior surfaces (TBD)

seats:
-- rear seats rejuvenated $$
-- front seat belts replaced $$
-- seat padding replaced (TBD) $$$

fuel:
-- fuel pressure regulator added $
-- fuel cap replaced $

-- windshield nozzles replaced $$
-- windshield hoses fixed $
-- rubber hood seal added $$

 

[oddodaoddo]

Yep, I thought so. But realistically I am buying a 47 year old car so I know there will be work involved no matter how "pristine" the car looks. Thank you for the rundown of what cost how much. To be honest, one of the major motivations for buying this car is to learn how to work on them. There is a 1985 Ford Crown Victoria on the market for much less, I am wondering if this car is better than the 1970 Merc but I have a feeling that the Merc is much simpler even than the 1985 Crown Vic....

This is what i had to fix/change in my "pristine" 1973 280 in the past few months of owning the car. Granted, many of the things are cosmetic or because i just wanted to learn about cars.

$ = cost what other modern cars would cost
$$/$$$ = cost more (in my opinion) because the part is rare

engine:
-- battery replaced $
-- battery tray replaced $$
-- exhaust manifold heat riser replaced $$
-- heat riser thermostat replaced $$
-- cold air intake hose fixed $$
-- engine to air filter hose replaced $$
-- shiftier bushings replaced $$$ (because of labor)
-- power steering belt replaced $
-- carburetor replaced $$$
-- carburetor adjusted
-- carburetor choke connected $$$ (because of labor - in early days i didn't know much)
-- choke adjusted
-- radiator over-fill hose replaced $
-- radiator cap replaced $
-- spark plugs replaced $
-- spark plug wires replaced $
-- heater valve replaced $$
-- heater valve wires fixed
-- timing adjusted
-- valves adjusted
-- valve gasket changed $
-- AC compressor replaced $$
-- AC dryer replaced $
-- transmission linkage adjusted

seals:
-- front and back windshield seals sealed $
-- door seal on left rear side replaced $ (or $$$ if from Mercedes)
-- weather seal near the hood replaced $$

chassis:
-- underside partially undercoated $
-- rust spots fixed in the trunk $
-- sound deadening all around the car $$
-- rust spots in the engine bay fixed $
-- hood liner added $
-- driver side rust fixed $
-- floor mats added $
-- trunk floor mat added $
-- side markers fixed $$

undercarriage:
-- tires replaced $
-- rear stabilizer replaced $
-- rubber exhaust o-rings replaced $
-- idler arm bushings replaced $
-- drag link replaced $
-- steering damper replaced $

doors:
-- driver door interiors oiled
-- door check straps oiled
-- door hinges lubed $
-- rear window crank replaced $

interior:
-- doom light replaced $$
-- after market speaker grills added $
-- under dash cardboard maintained $
-- rubber floor mats added $
-- attached mug holder to the center console $
-- attached mug holder to the rear seats $
-- vents labels added
-- sun viziers replaced $$
-- de goo all interior surfaces (TBD)

seats:
-- rear seats rejuvenated $$
-- front seat belts replaced $$
-- seat padding replaced (TBD) $$$

fuel:
-- fuel pressure regulator added $
-- fuel cap replaced $

-- windshield nozzles replaced $$
-- windshield hoses fixed $
-- rubber hood seal added $$

 

[kdjones99]

Mechanically, the engine/tranny are pretty bullet proof. Rust is the biggest problem with these. Look everywhere, especially the rocker panels/doors. Pull up the carpet and look for moisture.
Check the blower motor and make sure heater core doesn't leak.
There are many posts on here with more suggestions about what to look for.
If you decide to buy it, this site can be extremely helpful.
Good luck!
Klaus

Ps, post some pics, we love pics!

 

[bracurrie]

I bought my W108 280 SE last November and got lucky and unlucky. The 2.8 MFI engine is pretty much bullet proof except for the MFI. If someone messed with it without knowing what they are doing because the car was running poorly it may need TLC by knowledgeable tech to set straight. If inclined I have seen some how to instructions on a 280 SL site. These MFI engines if running too rich can have gas in the oil and that can be bad.
But when you get it right, its wonderful.

 

[oddodaoddo]

I bought my W108 280 SE last November and got lucky and unlucky. The 2.8 MFI engine is pretty much bullet proof except for the MFI. If someone messed with it without knowing what they are doing because the car was running poorly it may need TLC by knowledgeable tech to set straight. If inclined I have seen some how to instructions on a 280 SL site. These MFI engines if running too rich can have gas in the oil and that can be bad.
But when you get it right, its wonderful.

Thanks!

 

[oddodaoddo]

Mechanically, the engine/tranny are pretty bullet proof. Rust is the biggest problem with these. Look everywhere, especially the rocker panels/doors. Pull up the carpet and look for moisture.
Check the blower motor and make sure heater core doesn't leak.
There are many posts on here with more suggestions about what to look for.
If you decide to buy it, this site can be extremely helpful.
Good luck!
Klaus

Ps, post some pics, we love pics!

Will do - I am taking it for a pre-purchase inspection. Curious, why is rust a big deal? Way back when we used to patch it up wither by welding on a piece od by using fillers that could be sanded down and painted over...

Thanks!

 

[oddodaoddo]

Mechanically, the engine/tranny are pretty bullet proof. Rust is the biggest problem with these. Look everywhere, especially the rocker panels/doors. Pull up the carpet and look for moisture.
Check the blower motor and make sure heater core doesn't leak.
There are many posts on here with more suggestions about what to look for.
If you decide to buy it, this site can be extremely helpful.
Good luck!
Klaus

Ps, post some pics, we love pics!

Will do - I am taking it for a pre-purchase inspection. Curious, why is rust a big deal? Way back when we used to patch it up wither by welding on a piece od by using fillers that could be sanded down and painted over...

Thanks!

 

[bracurrie]

Further thoughts more to your question.
As a rule the major mechanical parts are not cheap but you can find values. Unless its a faulty part they shouldn't fail again unless damaged or worn out with use. But using the car is what it is all about anyway. My experience with MBs in the seventies taught me that they really do work better with regular use and knowledgeable maintenance.
I have no skills, tools or time to DIY most of the work needed on my 280 SE so I am getting professional work done but aside from the need of specialized tools for some things the W108 is an easy car to work on. Once all sub-frame, shocks and suspension rubber is replaced (if bad) and steering system is brought up to factory specs (my steering box was badly worn) you will be amazed at how well it drives.
Rust is the dark side to any old car. Mine has a rotted floor that has been patched well enough to use. After I get mine sorted out mechanically and drive it for a year or so, I will tackle the rust issue. But that level of commitment(money) isn't there for me yet. Prevention is the key there. Window and door seals may need replacing and should not be ignored in a daily driver subjected to the elements. Seals are available. Water drains must be inspected to make sure they work.
W108 MB sedans have not been collectible but they do hold their value if serviceable. They are pretty cars but they are also very good machines that IMHO are worth the effort and/or money.
My 280 SE will be my daily driver. I looked at what was available in the lightly used market and for about the same money I will be driving a car that is safe, fast and satisfying to drive. A W108 car used regularly will cost something to maintain but may end up being a cost efficient car option.
Go for it Oddo.

 

[oddodaoddo]

Mechanically, the engine/tranny are pretty bullet proof. Rust is the biggest problem with these. Look everywhere, especially the rocker panels/doors. Pull up the carpet and look for moisture.
Check the blower motor and make sure heater core doesn't leak.
There are many posts on here with more suggestions about what to look for.
If you decide to buy it, this site can be extremely helpful.
Good luck!
Klaus

Ps, post some pics, we love pics!

Will do - I am taking it for a pre-purchase inspection. Curious, why is rust a big deal? Way back when we used to patch it up wither by welding on a piece or by using fillers that could be sanded down and painted over... of course unless it is extensive as in your feet going through the floor

Thanks!

 

[Grubeguy]

I've had cars with the feet through the floor, and unless you have a lot of free time, it can really take a hit on your social life. Mercedes, like all cars of the same era, did a poor job on rust proofing. Additionally, any almost-50 year old car will have rust, "pristine" or otherwise. It's just the name of the game. Repairing it, if extensive, will be costly (cheaper if you do it yourself of course).

For your inspection, look for the afore mentioned moisture, look for crappy front and rear glass seals, and look for obvious signs of engine and tranny issues (leaks, smoke, etc). The tranny should shift a little harder than most luxury cars of the same age, which extends the life of the thing. Engine compression will be your biggest indicator of a healthy engine, so make sure you ask your mechanic to do one. Same thing with a leakdown test, if they have the time.

Have you decided to buy it yet?

 

[oddodaoddo]

I've had cars with the feet through the floor, and unless you have a lot of free time, it can really take a hit on your social life. Mercedes, like all cars of the same era, did a poor job on rust proofing. Additionally, any almost-50 year old car will have rust, "pristine" or otherwise. It's just the name of the game. Repairing it, if extensive, will be costly (cheaper if you do it yourself of course).

For your inspection, look for the afore mentioned moisture, look for crappy front and rear glass seals, and look for obvious signs of engine and tranny issues (leaks, smoke, etc). The tranny should shift a little harder than most luxury cars of the same age, which extends the life of the thing. Engine compression will be your biggest indicator of a healthy engine, so make sure you ask your mechanic to do one. Same thing with a leakdown test, if they have the time.

Have you decided to buy it yet?

Hello, I have not decided yet. The inspection got pushed out to tomorrow (Monday) so we will know the extent of work necessary on the vehicle. I know it has rust as someone tried to do a poor job of covering it up (it is behind the front lights) and there are a few bubbly spots on the doors that appear the same way - the owner says that the previous owner took it to a body shop where they didn't know old cars and did a cheap job (which I don't believe). The inside of the car looked brand new (which kind of surprised me as it was the original stuff in there). The engine had some oil on the lines and hoses (that's never good) but I allowed for the possibility that it was an old leak although the oil looked pretty fresh. So, possible issues and I am not 1970s Merc pro mechanic. We shall see - I will keep everyone posted. I am kind of stuck on this car as I always wanted an old hand-built Mercedes that I can understand inside and out - although I think that at $7500 it may be somewhat overpriced for the condition it is in (?). I have a brand new truck that I use to tow our horse trailer (it is not intended to be a commuter) but it can be used in a pinch if the Merc has to wait for a few days to be fixed by me - hence, I have some latitude. However, even with the latitude I am generally a cautious fella and try not to throw money into things that have the potential to become bottomless - hence my question on this forum.

 

[Grubeguy]

$7500 seems rather high, in my opinion. The car had better be at or near Pebble Beach condition. I sold a really nice 280SE a few years ago with a well sorted engine, nice interior and all major rust taken out after a thorough (though amateur) restoration, for $4400.

If the car has rust where you can see it, it'll have rust where you CAN'T see it, and repairs like that will get costly either in $$ or your man hours. If the compression is mismatched or low across the board, the parts to fix it won't be too bad, but the labor will kill you. If the heater blower motor is shot, you're looking at $4000 for the job, assuming $100 per hour labor to replace a $58 dollar part (that job, I can say from experience, is a bear). Etc etc etc. If you can provide a list of what your inspection finds, to include rust areas, whether the tranny is good or bad, clunks on acceleration/deceleration, condition of brakes, window seals, and more, we can give you an idea what it takes to replace or repair, and you can make a more cogent, well reasoned offer to the seller.

 

[rwd4evr]

If it's a super nice 280se 4 speed floor shift car you may be talking prices like that, but otherwise that's really high for one of these cars. Even 3.5 or 4.5 cars would have to be pretty good to bring that money. But full matinence records is awesome and does absolutely seriously raise value. Not certain to 7500 though.