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1983 300SD
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Discussion Starter #1
MB part# 636 589 02 23 00?

Please feel free to PM through this board or just respond here. I'll buy it from the first person to respond with one. Thanks! :)
 

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1983 300SD
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50 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Not really. Injection line has an extremely small I.D. in order to create high pressure to the injectors. The factory drip spout is much larger, like a miniature bath fixture, that fuel can drain and drip out of with no resistance. I want the correct tool.

Once again, anyone have one?
 

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1984 300D
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It is OK if you want the real Factory made one but there are most likely way more homemade ones in use and with the flow and Fuel Pressure involved when you drip time the resistance does not have much meaning.

Also the ID of the Fuel injection Lines dose not control the pressure of Injection. It is the amount of spring tension in the Injector that does that.
 

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1985 300CD Turbo coupe, 2006 E320 CDI sedan
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573 Posts
I have one, used once. It's even still in the original factory baggie.

//greg//
 

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1983 300SD
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Discussion Starter #6
Also the ID of the Fuel injection Lines dose not control the pressure of Injection. It is the amount of spring tension in the Injector that does that.
Did not say that it controls the pressure of injection. Go back and re-read my post.

And watch it. I'm just dumb enough to get into an internet debate over fuel lines. :)
 

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99 SLK230 Kompressor, 5 Speed Manual
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1,117 Posts
Back when I regularly timed IP's I used a home made one for awhile and then bought the factory version. One worked as good as the other.

That said, I understand the urge to have the factory made part. It's not that expensive, so why not.

I haven't had the need for mine in quite some time, but if I were to sell it, then I would have a need for it the very next day.
 

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1984 300D
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Did not say that it controls the pressure of injection. Go back and re-read my post.

And watch it. I'm just dumb enough to get into an internet debate over fuel lines. :)
OK I changed the controls to create.
Also the ID of the Fuel injection Lines dose not create he pressure of Injection. It is the amount of spring tension in the Injector that does that.

It is very clear that changing the size of the shims that tension the spring inside of the Injectors changes the pressure that the Injector opens at that allows the Fuel to be Injected.

"Not really. Injection line has an extremely small I.D. in order to create high pressure to the injectors."

What I believe is that the Injector spring tension (until the Injector reaches the Opening/Pop Pressure) is what creates the High Pressure in the Injectors; not the ID of the Fuel Injection Lines.

I am curious to hear your side of this.
 

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1983 300SD
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Discussion Starter #10
Let's see if I can make this simple enough for you:

The injectors on a 617 5-cyl. turbodiesel open at what, ~1900 psi.?? So if there is less than 1900 psi., (or whatever the spec is), being supplied to the injector, it does not open, correct? Your car does not run. It is a paperweight.

How do you suppose that Mercedes, (or anyone else), gets over 1900 psi. flowing to the injectors? By forcing liquid through a small diameter tube. Think about the way that the vascular system works in the human body. How it supplies even blood pressure to various parts of the body that are varying distances from the pump. (Your heart). By using smaller and smaller tubes, (veins), as the distances grow and gravity must be overcome. This is also the way that engines supply even oil pressure to various moving parts, by forcing oil through differing sized tubes (galleys/passageways). The ones to the cam(s) are very small if they are on the top of the engine. Think about your municipal water supply and the size of the water main under the street compared to the size of your indoor plumbing. Think about the nozzle on your garden hose. Now think what kind of pressure you'd have if you hooked-up a fire hose to your garden hose bib somehow. Or what kind of pressure a 617 diesel would have to the injectors if Mercedes used much larger tubing with the same size (volume) pump.

Now go back and read my original post regarding tube size, again.

FWIW, I believe the people that say that a piece of bent fuel line will work fine. I wanted the factory tool. I like good tools. I'm funny that way. And thanks especially to GregG for selling me one. :)
 

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1984 300D
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Let's see if I can make this simple enough for you:

The injectors on a 617 5-cyl. turbodiesel open at what, ~1900 psi.?? So if there is less than 1900 psi., (or whatever the spec is), being supplied to the injector, it does not open, correct? Your car does not run. It is a paperweight.
How do you suppose that Mercedes, (or anyone else), gets over 1900 psi. flowing to the injectors? By forcing liquid through a small diameter tube. Think about the way that the vascular system works in the human body. How it supplies even blood pressure to various parts of the body that are varying distances from the pump. (Your heart). By using smaller and smaller tubes, (veins), as the distances grow and gravity must be overcome. This is also the way that engines supply even oil pressure to various moving parts, by forcing oil through differing sized tubes (galleys/passageways). The ones to the cam(s) are very small if they are on the top of the engine. Think about your municipal water supply and the size of the water main under the street compared to the size of your indoor plumbing. Think about the nozzle on your garden hose. Now think what kind of pressure you'd have if you hooked-up a fire hose to your garden hose bib somehow. Or what kind of pressure a 617 diesel would have to the injectors if Mercedes used much larger tubing with the same size (volume) pump.

Now go back and read my original post regarding tube size, again.

FWIW, I believe the people that say that a piece of bent fuel line will work fine. I wanted the factory tool. I like good tools. I'm funny that way. And thanks especially to GregG for selling me one. :)
When Plunger inside of one of the Elements moves (when it not in the shutoff position) X amount of Fuel is going to move through the Fuel Injection Line and into the Injector.
Because there is absolutely no place else for the Fuel to go the pressure rises until it is high enough to lift the Pintle (the Pintle is under spring tension) in the Injector Nozzle of if its seat. Ounce that happens the Fuel Is Injector out of the Injector.
The only way the pressure of the Fuel will be below the opening pressure of the Injector is if there is a leak large enough for that to happen.
If for some reason (like dirt in the Fuel Injection Line) the Fuel Injection Line gets blocked the pressure rises until something breaks. The 2 times I have seen this happen the Fuel Injection Line violently broke in two.
In a sense the Injector acts as a pressure relief valve. The pressure rises until it lifts the Pintle off of the seat. Ounce the Pintle is lifted the pressure is relieved.

Do not mix up how your Heart and Vascular System work with how a Fuel Injection Pump works.
If you want to try to think of it that way think of the Injector as being the Capillary because that is were the highest resistance to pressure is.

I actually did not want to say this but by some an odd circumstance I have training and on the job experience in Fuel Injection and the Cardio Vascular System.
I went to Trade School for about 2 years learning Diesel Mechanics and my first job as a Mechanic was working in a Fuel Injection Shop (5 years) where on a daily basis I rebuilt Fuel Injection Pumps, Turbos and anything else my Boss though I could fix.
He also paid for me to go to Bosch and Standyne (Roosamaster) Factory Fuel Injection Classes.
After the Fuel Injection Shop job I worked for another 13 years as a Diesel Mechanic.

I was involved in a Car accident and could not work as a Diesel Mechanic and went to College and have got an AS Degree in Respiratory Care so I could be a Respiratory Therapist (this is where my detailed knowledge of the Cardio Vascular System comes from; Also I was a Medic when I was in the Army).

Now. I am speaking of the Fuel Injection System that is like the one on my 1984 300D.
The Common Rail Fuel Injection System works differently. In the Common Rail System a Pump supplies a High Pressure and the Injector is opened by another means. But, that is beyond the scope of this part of the Forum that is devoted to 123s.

Somewhere on the Internet there must be someplace where you can verify if what I am saying is true or not.

In the diagram below #1 is the Pintel of the Injector and #10 is the Pressure Spring.
 

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1983 300SD
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Discussion Starter #12
I'm not sure what we're arguing about. (Told you I was dumb). You still need enough constant, (or quickly building), pressure available to the injector for the pintle to move or whatever happens to relieve pressure.

Do you not agree that pushing a given volume of fluid through smaller and smaller passages creates higher pressure? Why did MB not make those injection lines larger diameter? Why are the veins to your extremities smaller than the ones to your trunk? Why such tiny oil lines and squirter holes to the cam on top of an inline 5 or 6 cyl. engine?

I do appreciate the injector diagram and your knowledge but I'm absolutely baffled with your argument/disagreement here. :confused:
 

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1984 300D
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I am not saying this to be rude but you need to do some research in both the Fuel Injection and the Anatomical area.

The Blood exiting you Heart goes into a large Arterial vessle/s (taking oxygenated Blood to the tissues) that gradually gets smaller down to the Capillaries. However, as the Vessels get smaller there number of vessels increases.
After the Tissue Cells uptake the O2 and give off the Carbon Dioxide (this happens in the Capillaries) the Blood goes into the Venous system. As the Blood flows back to your heart the Venous Vessels become larger. By the time the Venous Blood reaches your Heart you only have about 3-5 (the higher figure might be has high as 7mmhg but I cannot remember) mmhg of pressure.
From the Heart it goes into towards the Lungs where the Vessels again start of large and go down to capillary size (here the Carbon Dioxide is exchange for O2 from the Air in your Lungs); after which the Vessels again progressivly get larger as the Blood Flows into the Left Side of the Heart.

As far as physical laws concerning fluid going though a tube there is resistance. A longer Tube will have more resistance than a shorter tube. A narrow tube will have a greater resistance by a factor or 2 or 3 times more as the ID is restricted (I cannot remember the name of the Law or the exact factor).

The Heart by itself can increase your Blood Pressure by speeding up the Heart Rate or by changing how much in contracts.
You Blood Vessel System both Venous and Arterial has Muscles surrounding them that can contract or relax; decreasing or increasing Blood pressure.

It is not dumb not to know something.
I did not know what I know about Fuel Injection or the Circulatory system till I took Classes or recieved Training on them.
I will not be commenting further.
 
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