[419Mog]

Hi Guys - I've been considering a 419 for several years for general work around my property. One is available a few miles from me from a private seller who can provide a 'Bill of Sale' only. I've heard the only way to get a title on 419's was at the time of original sale from the military's contractor 'GovPlanet'. Once in private hands, titles can never be issued. Does anyone have any first hand experience 419's registered for road use?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions/ideas
Mark

 

[expeditionimports]

It is going to be like any other vehicle that does not have a title/documentation. In reality paperwork gets lost/destroyed. There are numerous ways that states handle the situation based upon the specifics. In CA a vehicle is left on your property, you can legally file a lien to get title. (Lienwerks.net) You can do the bonded title process. The Vermont Bill of Sale process, etc., etc. The point is every state likely has options for when paperwork is not available. HOWEVER, that process usually does not sidestep the requirements of the state for that vehicle. If your state does not consider the 419 a street legal vehicle, then not having the paperwork is not likely to change that. Then you need to go "state shopping." My opinon is a 419 is a piece of equipment. Put a triangle on it and drive it where you need to go. If you are planning to make it your everyday driver and convert to a trail type truck...Ok I guess I can understand that but I would be looking at a different platform. Does your state issue a title for a backhoe? In CA we call it an SE plate (Special Equipment) which rarely do we see get used. Cheers, Scott

 

[Speedwoble]

Much good info from Scott there. A lot of the GovPlanet titles, at least in my case, were 16K GVWR, which can be pretty easily exceeded, so not having the GovPlanet title can be a blessing in disguise.
You still must do your due diligence to ensure the person selling it to you owns it legally.

 

[peakbagger]

New Hampshire does not issue or require titles once a vehicle is 25 years old. My SEE is just registered as construction equipment. Far more problematical is getting insurance for road use..

 

[NhBen]

NH was really easy to get my 1250 registered, but like peakbagger mentioned insurance wasn't so handy. My car insurance comapny wouldn't touch it. I ended up adding it to the commercial vehicle insurance that our business has, and they seemed fine to add it as a truck.

good luck

 

[419Mog]

It is going to be like any other vehicle that does not have a title/documentation. In reality paperwork gets lost/destroyed. There are numerous ways that states handle the situation based upon the specifics. In CA a vehicle is left on your property, you can legally file a lien to get title. (Lienwerks.net) You can do the bonded title process. The Vermont Bill of Sale process, etc., etc. The point is every state likely has options for when paperwork is not available. HOWEVER, that process usually does not sidestep the requirements of the state for that vehicle. If your state does not consider the 419 a street legal vehicle, then not having the paperwork is not likely to change that. Then you need to go "state shopping." My opinon is a 419 is a piece of equipment. Put a triangle on it and drive it where you need to go. If you are planning to make it your everyday driver and convert to a trail type truck...Ok I guess I can understand that but I would be looking at a different platform. Does your state issue a title for a backhoe? In CA we call it an SE plate (Special Equipment) which rarely do we see get used. Cheers, Scott

Hi Scott - THanks for information. My understanding is as a military vehicle (many times), the normal processes used for lost documentation doesn't work. I hope I'm wrong and I'm trying engage DMV for assistance/guidance. Your point on if the state recognizes a 419 as a street viable vehicle may be the elephant in the room. Perhaps (as you noted), that is first primary question.

My usage of 419 is purpose intended for trench, pond and general property maintenance. I agree a 419 certainly (as designed) is not a good trail vehicle and certainly not a good daily driver. I have modified jeeps for the fun days .

Thanks again for your thoughts on this

 

[419Mog]

Much good info from Scott there. A lot of the GovPlanet titles, at least in my case, were 16K GVWR, which can be pretty easily exceeded, so not having the GovPlanet title can be a blessing in disguise.
You still must do your due diligence to ensure the person selling it to you owns it legally.

Interesting observation. Thanks for mentioning this!!!

 

[419Mog]

New Hampshire does not issue or require titles once a vehicle is 25 years old. My SEE is just registered as construction equipment. Far more problematical is getting insurance for road use..

Thanks for mentioning this. Insurance is something I've started to look into. So far, I've been told the vehicle must be titled/registered before insurance can be applied .

 

[419Mog]

NH was really easy to get my 1250 registered, but like peakbagger mentioned insurance wasn't so handy. My car insurance comapny wouldn't touch it. I ended up adding it to the commercial vehicle insurance that our business has, and they seemed fine to add it as a truck.

good luck

Thanks for mentioning commercial vehicle insurance, I hadn't considered that. I'll definitely look into this option

 

[peakbagger]

A general comment is that insurance agents have some flexibility on whether or not they will attempt to write a policy. When I got my 1300L Ambulance I called my long term agent and got one of his employees who informed me that they could not write a policy. I then asked for the actual agent and explained that I had all my insurance coverage with that company and agent for over 35 years and had never needed to put in a claim. He said he would look into it and called back that he could gladly write me liability policy as long as I removed the blue lights and the ambulance interior components and it was not used for commercial purposes. At the same time the person who sold me the 1300L gave me contact info for his agent with another insurance company where he listed all his Mogs. She called me back and told me she would not write a policy for just the 1300L. If I on the other hand would switch all my other policies over she would consider it.

I have heard that getting coverage for a camper conversion is even more difficult as there is no good way to establish the replacement value for a one off. I expect the camper folks can chime in.

 

[Brendon-KS]

I would imagine that each state has their own rules about this sort of thing. Here in Kansas my Case MB4/94 is classified as a "micro utility truck" per the state's Department of Revenue and thus cannot be registered as a highway vehicle. (To me "micro utility truck" doesn't describe a 406 very well but it falls within the width, length, weight, and maximum speed guidelines for this class of vehicle.) Kansas laws do permit this class of vehicle to operate on county roads and within city limits only if that city's laws expressly permit it. Use on state or federal highways is prohibited with the only exception being that it is allowed to cross over a highway when traveling on an intersecting county road. Per my agent the liability insurance is covered by my home/farm policy just as it is when I'm driving my regular farm tractors down the road. Your best bet would be to contact your state's Dept of Revenue to get the particulars for where you live.

 

[Brendon-KS]

My opinon is a 419 is a piece of equipment. Put a triangle on it and drive it where you need to go.

A person needs to be careful with applying an SMV triangle to a vehicle that can exceed 25 mph. By the legal definition an SMV sign by itself marks a vehicle with a top speed of less than 25 mph. If the vehicle can exceed that speed a manufacturer-provided "speed index symbol" (SIS) must accompany the SMV sign. The SIS is a white circular placard with the vehicle's maximum speed indicated and it is located next to the SMV. However, as with many rules like this it is up to the individual states and localities on how or even if they enforce this.

 

[Speedwoble]

I ended up going for commercial insurance on my FLU because the lesser policies don’t allow towing a trailer larger than 10K lbs. Even so, it is $450/year, so not bad. Insurance is not a place to skimp on. You want them to fight for you if something happens.

Good comments about the SMV symbols as well. I had a magnetic SMV that I put on my FLU thinking it would give better visibility, but it had a worse consequence: it made people think they had to pass me. Even if I was doing the speed limit on a section of road. People would see the SMV and automatically get in the mentality that they had to pass.
Vermont has a road-going excavator registration that is, I believe $190/year. I sent photos with my application and got that registration for one FLU.
The official GovPlanet titles said Freightliner, not Mercedes, not Unimog.

 

[Speedwoble]

Hi Scott - THanks for information. My understanding is as a military vehicle (many times), the normal processes used for lost documentation doesn't work. I hope I'm wrong and I'm trying engage DMV for assistance/guidance. Your point on if the state recognizes a 419 as a street viable vehicle may be the elephant in the room. Perhaps (as you noted), that is first primary question.

The military never titles the equipment, so they provide an SF97 which is equivalent to a manufacturer’s Certificate of origin. Basically it is the document that starts the chain of documentation. Without that, it isn’t in any state’s record system.

 

[burqueDOKA]

I have my HMMH insured with Hagerty as a military collector vehicle. Basically for parades and club meets (limited annual mileage). They dont ever check, nor would they ever officially check where or when I drive it, so.....

 

[419Mog]

A general comment is that insurance agents have some flexibility on whether or not they will attempt to write a policy. When I got my 1300L Ambulance I called my long term agent and got one of his employees who informed me that they could not write a policy. I then asked for the actual agent and explained that I had all my insurance coverage with that company and agent for over 35 years and had never needed to put in a claim. He said he would look into it and called back that he could gladly write me liability policy as long as I removed the blue lights and the ambulance interior components and it was not used for commercial purposes. At the same time the person who sold me the 1300L gave me contact info for his agent with another insurance company where he listed all his Mogs. She called me back and told me she would not write a policy for just the 1300L. If I on the other hand would switch all my other policies over she would consider it.

I have heard that getting coverage for a camper conversion is even more difficult as there is no good way to establish the replacement value for a one off. I expect the camper folks can chime in.

Thanks for providing your ideas and experiences. So far the insurance inquiries have yielded the only option as commercial truck under 33k. I think I just need to learn a bit more to get more specific options.

Thanks again

 

[419Mog]

A person needs to be careful with applying an SMV triangle to a vehicle that can exceed 25 mph. By the legal definition an SMV sign by itself marks a vehicle with a top speed of less than 25 mph. If the vehicle can exceed that speed a manufacturer-provided "speed index symbol" (SIS) must accompany the SMV sign. The SIS is a white circular placard with the vehicle's maximum speed indicated and it is located next to the SMV. However, as with many rules like this it is up to the individual states and localities on how or even if they enforce this.

Thanks for suggestion checking with the 'state's Dept of Revenue', never (ever) would have thought of this.

Also thanks for the refinement requirements for the SIS.

I have a ton to learn and this group has been very educational .

 

[419Mog]

I ended up going for commercial insurance on my FLU because the lesser policies don’t allow towing a trailer larger than 10K lbs. Even so, it is $450/year, so not bad. Insurance is not a place to skimp on. You want them to fight for you if something happens.

Good comments about the SMV symbols as well. I had a magnetic SMV that I put on my FLU thinking it would give better visibility, but it had a worse consequence: it made people think they had to pass me. Even if I was doing the speed limit on a section of road. People would see the SMV and automatically get in the mentality that they had to pass.
Vermont has a road-going excavator registration that is, I believe $190/year. I sent photos with my application and got that registration for one FLU.
The official GovPlanet titles said Freightliner, not Mercedes, not Unimog.

Thanks for your thoughts and experiences. So far commercial truck is the only option I've been told is feasible. I 'totally' agree that insurance is 'critical', which is largely the reason I started this thread. I initially thought without title and registration there were no options for insurance which is a total showstopper for me.

Thanks again

 

[419Mog]

I have my HMMH insured with Hagerty as a military collector vehicle. Basically for parades and club meets (limited annual mileage). They dont ever check, nor would they ever officially check where or when I drive it, so.....

I've considered collector status, but concerned with (primarily) milage. Do by chance know what you policy mileage limit is?

Cheers

 

[photobldr]

The whole insurance thing is, in my mind, the biggest, nastiest downside to Mog ownership. This topic has been flogged pretty strenuously in the past. One prime example:

Insuring a Unimog???

Does everyone out there run their Mogs without benefit of collision/ comp insurance? I have an RW1 coming in RORO very soon, and after getting a quote some time ago from Hagerty (stated value), when I went to sign up, they said "collector cars, nothing but show use only", and that was that...

www.benzworld.org

Skirting the letter of the law (or the underwriter's restrictions) is all fine and good, UNTIL YOU NEED TO FILE A CLAIM. Which is sort of the point of insurance, for most of us, anyway. If you want to use a Mog like a real road-going vehicle, or even worse, an off-highway capable expedition vehicle, then genuine collision/ comp is going to be a tough nut to crack. And it varies per jurisdiction, underwriter, etc etc. The real downside to a liability policy with declared value (such as issued by Hagerty) for collision/ comp is that if you have an injury accident on a far-from-home road trip, they will void ALL coverage on the policy when the claim is filed, leaving you totally liable personally for any injury claim. That much was made abundantly clear to me, which is why I abandoned that plan.

It is better to be lucky than good, but in matters like this, I don't count very heavily on luck being on my side.

EDIT: In my state of Colorado, one cannot register a highway vehicle without proof of liability insurance (collision/ comp is owner's discretion)

Lee