Email MBUSA through their website and specifically say your car is a PZEV vehicle with a 15 year 150k mile warranty. Include your VIN and attach a copy of your warranty information. The more information you provide them in writing the better. Create a paper trail, it forces them to be a lot more careful with their words.

Once you get a positive response from MBUSA, take that information and email your local dealer. Again maintain a paper trail, tell the dealer MBUSA advised you that your car is under warranty etc.

When my non PZEV started leaking I contacted MBUSA and asked when my 15 year warranty expires. Turns out I only had 4 months left. I attached a copy of that warranty info so there would be no doubt. They were quick to reply and very helpful. I forwarded that whole email conversation to my local dealer and they took it from there. I had a new fuel tank in my car 5 days later.

Start here.
https://mercedes-benz.custhelp.com/app/ask/session/L3RpbWUvMTU0NTk3OTE3Mi9zaWQvLWVhYTZvM28=

 

Got it - good suggestion. Thank you.

 

So what happened? I believe others have reported that even though they were no longer in a Pzev state, because it was bought in a Pzev state (CA) it was still covered.

 

I have sent a certified letter to MB customer service in GA asking for response re:warranty coverage. No response yet (but I sent the letter off about a week ago so they just got it).

Concurrently, I have visited local dealer, who is familiar with this issue and seemed knowledgeable about PZEV vehicles. Service Mgr. is unwilling to commit to anything until diagnostic work is done - which makes sense to me. Car goes in soon, with the understanding that if what needs repair is ultimately covered by warranty they will reimburse the diagnostic fee.

My warranty booklet has a protocol to follow if this has to go up the food chain so I'm following that protocol.

So.........I'm waiting to see what the problem is & whether they will cover it, and waiting on a response from MB customer service on my warranty coverage as a PZEV. Should know more in a few weeks.

The SM pointed out that the fuel pumps/sending units are integral to the fuel tank in PZEV vehicles which I confirmed - when I popped off the back seat and removed the "lid" there isn't anything there except what appears to be the top of the tank.

I have not been able to find other posts stating that PZEVs outside of PZEV states maintained their warranty - nor have I found any posts stating that MB rejected their claim. Unless I have missed them I don't see this covered in the forum.

 

Try looking for Pzev in the other forum. Probably things like gas leak or gasoline odor should turn it up. It's possible it was just covered under goodwill, but I think in theory if the car came with a 15/150k warranty when it was sold, it should still be in force no matter what state you're in. Same as a Pzev that was sold in a non-pzev state, in those cases they denied the warranty as in the non-pzev states only the 2 year warranty applied.

https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211-20/

 

I had my local MB dealership replace my fuel tank.

I got lucky because my SA is a normal and logical person, having a relationship helps too. I think my 08 E350 was around 100k miles when my garage started to smell like fuel after fill ups.

I took off the rear seat cover and removed the fuel tank cover, i could see fuel pooling onto of the fuel tank. I took a picture of this fuel leak.

I contacted my SA via email and sent the photo of the fuel leak along with a copy of the PZEV warranty to him. I explained the PZEV situation and that this is a very common issue on the W211's. My SA checked with the warranty administrator and they approved my repair under warranty. A week later i dropped my car off and the tank was replaced same day as they had multiple tanks in stock.

 

To close this out - happily - I brought my car in to the dealership for diagnostic work which determined I had a leaking fuel pump. Since I have a PZEV the fuel pump is integral with the fuel tank and thus the pump could not be replaced by itself. My SA was able to confirm with MB Warranty that I in fact have a PZEV, and that the 15 year/150,000 mile Emissions Related Components Warranty* "travels with the car" (originally purchased in a PZEV state - CA - but I live in NC, and I bought it used in TX). So MB paid for fuel tank replacement. I brought the car in pretty empty since they needed it that way, and they even filled the car up for me. MY SA was great - he wasn't aware of PZEVs but came up the curve very quickly. Overall, what could have been a testy encounter with MB instead has me very pleased with how they handled it all.

* separate page in my warranty booklet for PZEVs

 

I have a 2007 E350 and the fuel pump just went out. Now I need to find out if it is PZEV or ULEV and either way I am in trouble. 152,000 miles so the 15 year 150,000 mile warranty is probably not available to me. Car has not been serviced by a local dealer so no good will available. If it is PZEV are there options? I am looking to see other threads where this might have been addressed but still new and looking things up. Thanks for any tips.

 

What's the vin? It's expensive if you have to replace the tank, but that's just what MB does, I think some just use RTV or just replace the fuel pump. It's not that much compared to the cost of the whole tank.

 

First confirm PZEV or not then consider options

Sixto
05 E320 wagon 177K miles

 

I won't be able to see it till Wednesday and try to figure it out. I am taking a trailer with me figuring it will need a tow home. Trying to prepare. I see the PZEV tanks with pumps for sale $2200. Ouch. Hoping there is another fix or ability to install the standard gas tank. At 152,000 miles the car does not justify a $2200 fuel pump in my opinion. Very nice car but there are limits. Thanks

 

I am very experienced with Fuel Systems but not a sealed Mercedes tank. Not sure what they have done with the PZEV system. Are there any posts showing what others have found? I am away till Wednesday and will get more info and the Vin then. Sorry, I guess I am jumping in when I should have waited for more information. I was hoping to order a pump and get it on the way while I wait but that is not looking like an option. It is a California car but I have no idea if it is PZEV or not.

 

Nobody can really help you until you figure out whether or not it's a PZEV.

 

Well Damn, it is a PZEV and although registered as a 2007 the build date is Aug of 2006 so a couple weeks past the 15 year fuel tank / fuel pump warranty recall date. I think I may have a really nice car that is worth near nothing. Normal car, fuel pump $200, this car, $2100 plus and drop the exhaust and tank to begin the repair. I am hoping for other options.

 

Just swap in a non PZEV fuel tank.

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I have been searching for answers. Not sure the wire harness would adapt to a non PZEV System. If it has been done I will certainly do the tank swap. Any examples of a successful swap?
I could buy a tank install new pumps and the filter and lines and still be way ahead if it can work.
Thanks Mark

 

Mark,

If you are at all DIY capable, you should remove the rear seat cushion which is super easy.

Then pull back sound insulation under the seat cushion to expose the round access covers on Right & Left sides in the floor/frame sheet metal. Removing those covers which is also easy will expose the pump & sender module assys on the top of the tank. Each cover is attached with 6X machine screws with 8mm hex head; very easy to remove those.

You can then check the electrical connectors.

For the non-PZEV version, electrical connections to the vehicle harness are all on the left (driver's) side.

Pic of connector below. I did see in EPC that there is also a connector adapter that may be needed in some cases. I didn't need that as the vehicle harness conn looked like the pic below and mated directly to the new VDO sender unit on the left side and all plumbing & electrical to the 'pump module' on the right side runs thru the tank.

I think that there is going to be an easy solution for any vehicle harness mismatch. If you could take a look at the conn on your unit, you would likely have the answer you need.

 

I have the car up on jack stands now, from underneath there is little to see, the tank is covered pretty well by the shielding and exhaust/driveline. Looks like the exhaust and driveline need to come out to remove the tank. I just did that about a month ago to replace the driveline. Bad timing on the tank job for me. I perform major engine work all the time so working on a fuel pump does not make my knees weak but doing it right and keeping it legal is my concern. My 2007 PZEV version has access on the driver side to the filter and there are two wire connections at the top of the fliter cover, I have not removed it yet. The passenger side inspection cover when removed shows the tank on that side has no access at all to the pump as others have already confirmed is normal for PZEV. There are also no electrical connections on the passenger side. Makes me think the pump may be powered by the wire harness on the driver side. I will try and find a schematic. If a non PZEV tank could be used I could install that and a new pump and filter and still be in it less than $600. It is a failed pump, hooked up my fuel pressure gauge, turned the key to run and pressure was at zero. Hooked up my scan tool which allows me to turn the pump on or off manually. Pressure at zero while power is on, Took a rubber mallet and tapped on the tank above the pump on the passenger side and pressure jumped to 60 PSI. Started the car, it ran normally for less than a minute when I noticed the fuel pressure dropping quickly and the car stalled. I could tap the tank again and get pressure back for a restart but the same thing happens. Pump is bad. So I need to replace it. Wiring is good, no problem there. Usually a bad pump will make a growl when it runs, this one was still quiet but I noticed the AMP draw was about 10 Amps so that is not good it is shot.

 

I don't think there's a gas tank police so I think if you used something else, it would no longer meet the definition of PZEV, but I don't see how anyone is ever going to find out.

 

I have no problem with modifying the car to function. I do want every sensor or factory function to continue to work if I change tanks and pumps to non PZEV. I just need a plan that will work. I am trying to find the wire diagrams to compare the PZEV and non PZEV cars.

 

You should get a knock off copy of the EPC on eBay. They go by vin, but I'm sure you can dig up a vin from a car on sale so you can compare the two. The EPC/WIS is about $10 and the WIS is the official MB repair manual that the dealers use.

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I assume that you car is a E350 'Base' model. That should be a W211.056.

PZEV tank assy (211-470-8801) is ~$1626 and that includes the tank; pump; sender; all lines on the top of the tank, etc.

Non PZEV tank is 211-470-2402 for the 'larger capacity' 80 liter tank and that's ~$638

The OEM VDO sender and pump module assys and seals are around $325.

It looks to me like even with a getting a used non-PZEV tank and putting in new module assys, that's likely to cost you around $800.

Just replacing the PZEV tank assy with a new one with shipping will likely cost you around $1800 + some tax etc.

Seems like the PZEV 'Code 917' option costs you about an extra $1000 even with a used tank aside from the hassle of R&R of the tank assy which IS good sized hassle, but you're stuck with that.

There isn't any difference that I could see in Star Finder for the vehicle wire harness to the tank. It shows only one connector like the pic I posted earlier.

The thing I wonder is whether there are any 'plumbing' differences with the lines to the tank between the 2 versions.

I don't think the EVAP system function is different. There is a 'special' Leak Check procedure cited in WIS for the PZEV (Code 917) cars that is attached. The cited pressures are pretty much the same for 'standard' EVAP system. The 'special' treatment is only perhaps the use of a 'sniffer' to search for any leaks.

Hope this helps with your deliberations.

 

There are 2 conns on the top of the left side module in the tank. The 2nd conn is for a Tank Pressure Sensor. The electrical harness & conns to the tank module appear to be the same for both PZEV & Std tank configs.

 

Great Information and really helps with decisions. Thank you. There is one hose I know of that attaches to the non PZEV tank on the driver side. That hose does not show on the PZEV so it must be vented somewhere else I may need to re route that hose if I go with a non PZEV tank. Big decision and I am on the fence.
I was able to drain the tank tonight using the fuel pressure test port. I had to tap on the tank to get the pump working. At first it sounded course but then smoothed out and sounded perfect. I ran a Quart of ATF, Automatic transmission fluid in with the gasoline I was draining. ATF does a good job cleaning and also lubricates better than gasoline. I hoped it might free up the pump and make it work for a while. It still will not restart after shut off, each time the pump is shut off it will not restart without tapping the tank, common issue with failing pumps but hey, it ran well enough to help me drain the tank with no fuss or mess. That takes 10 gallons of weight out, will make removal easier.
These tanks are so expensive, makes me wonder if I could cut a hole in the top of my old tank, go in and replace the in tank pump and then hire a good welder to weld it shut again. Pumps are cheap, the dang tank is the expensive part.

PS: I have an extra car so this is not a stress for transportation and I can take my time to do either of the options. The photo with a little sand is the sealed PZEV tank top.
There is the inspection plate behind the passenger seat but when removed there is nothing inside that can be worked on.
The second photo is driver side where the filter unit is installed and shows the wire connections. Note it is missing the vent hose that is on the Non PZEV cars.
I am new so posting pictures is a learning process.
Note: The PZEV cars have 6 bolts to hold the seal for the filter while the non PZEV cars use the threaded cap to hold it in place. I don't think the filter can be installed in the non correct tank.

 

Will an external pump draw through the bad in tank pump? You might try one from a W210 gasser. The intake end is huge so you’ll have to do some plumbing. I suppose there are aftermarket options.

Is the PZEV tank metal or were you thinking of welding plastic?

Sixto
05 E320 wagon 177K miles

 

Attached PDF shows the marketing spin from the American Chemical Council on this type of design of plastic fuel tanks in general.

It all sounds reasonable until you get to the part where they cite the "ship in a bottle" design of entire fuel pump; sender; internal plumbing and wiring all integrated 'internally' in the blow-molded fuel tank. The design/engineering reasons making that such a 'good' thing are not very clearly stated or defended.

Obviously in the long range of total cost of vehicle ownership and maintenance, the "ship in a bottle" design CAN'T possibly be a plus in that context.

With this painful revelation occurring only around 15yrs or 150000 miles into the life of the vehicle, it's a matter that is not much talked or known about by the owner/user until it's too late.

The "ship in a bottle" metaphor betrays a glaring gap/disconnect in the engineering mindset. They should also be adding "by the way, the ship inside has moving parts & electrics and has to remain functional or the whole unit is scrap".

This design may be a lot more common than most people realize.

 

The design/engineering reasons making that such a 'good' thing are not very clearly stated or defended.

Cost. They were even too cheap to add one word to the document.

Sixto
05 E320 wagon 177K miles

 

The PZEV Tank is metal. A in line pump could pull through the factory pump, there are no restrictions but looking at the car there is no room. The pump has to be mounted very close to the gas tank. They do not draw well so they have to be close. The gas tank is built into the shape of this car. Very tight fit and then the exhaust and driveshaft are in that same location. I did not see a potential spot for an external pump mount.

 

West I follow the post regarding your Tank Iam in the same boat now iam wondering what was the end of this ordeal did you change tanks? or you were able to fix the pump or what happened Igot lost if you change the tank how much was it? or how much was the pump if you can share some pics or any info it would be highly appreciate