I have experienced strong gas odors for years with a full tank + emission system issues and just came across this study plus this forum (very helpful). I bought a used CA car (a so called PZEV - partial zero emission vehicle) in TX and now live in NC. It's a 2007 E350 with 100k miles on it. When I called MBUSA Customer Service - and later the local dealer - I was told that my VIN does not show up on the Extended Warranty list so I'm out of luck. The Warranty Booklet says that for PZEV vehicles the Emission Performance/Control system is covered for 15 years/150,000 miles already so I'm guessing the folks I talked with don't know I am a PZEV. My question is whether anyone with a PZEV has dealt with MB and/or dealers and can provide me some coaching on how to get them to address my issues since my VIN is not showing up. I'll take the obvious step of waltzing down to the dealership with my paperwork but I'd be interested to know how others handled this issue. Thanks.
Analysis of Fuel Tank Leaks, Model Years 2003-2008
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Email MBUSA through their website and specifically say your car is a PZEV vehicle with a 15 year 150k mile warranty. Include your VIN and attach a copy of your warranty information. The more information you provide them in writing the better. Create a paper trail, it forces them to be a lot more careful with their words.
Once you get a positive response from MBUSA, take that information and email your local dealer. Again maintain a paper trail, tell the dealer MBUSA advised you that your car is under warranty etc.
When my non PZEV started leaking I contacted MBUSA and asked when my 15 year warranty expires. Turns out I only had 4 months left. I attached a copy of that warranty info so there would be no doubt. They were quick to reply and very helpful. I forwarded that whole email conversation to my local dealer and they took it from there. I had a new fuel tank in my car 5 days later.
Start here.
https://mercedes-benz.custhelp.com/app/ask/session/L3RpbWUvMTU0NTk3OTE3Mi9zaWQvLWVhYTZvM28=
Once you get a positive response from MBUSA, take that information and email your local dealer. Again maintain a paper trail, tell the dealer MBUSA advised you that your car is under warranty etc.
When my non PZEV started leaking I contacted MBUSA and asked when my 15 year warranty expires. Turns out I only had 4 months left. I attached a copy of that warranty info so there would be no doubt. They were quick to reply and very helpful. I forwarded that whole email conversation to my local dealer and they took it from there. I had a new fuel tank in my car 5 days later.
Start here.
https://mercedes-benz.custhelp.com/app/ask/session/L3RpbWUvMTU0NTk3OTE3Mi9zaWQvLWVhYTZvM28=
So what happened? I believe others have reported that even though they were no longer in a Pzev state, because it was bought in a Pzev state (CA) it was still covered.
I have sent a certified letter to MB customer service in GA asking for response re:warranty coverage. No response yet (but I sent the letter off about a week ago so they just got it).
Concurrently, I have visited local dealer, who is familiar with this issue and seemed knowledgeable about PZEV vehicles. Service Mgr. is unwilling to commit to anything until diagnostic work is done - which makes sense to me. Car goes in soon, with the understanding that if what needs repair is ultimately covered by warranty they will reimburse the diagnostic fee.
My warranty booklet has a protocol to follow if this has to go up the food chain so I'm following that protocol.
So.........I'm waiting to see what the problem is & whether they will cover it, and waiting on a response from MB customer service on my warranty coverage as a PZEV. Should know more in a few weeks.
The SM pointed out that the fuel pumps/sending units are integral to the fuel tank in PZEV vehicles which I confirmed - when I popped off the back seat and removed the "lid" there isn't anything there except what appears to be the top of the tank.
I have not been able to find other posts stating that PZEVs outside of PZEV states maintained their warranty - nor have I found any posts stating that MB rejected their claim. Unless I have missed them I don't see this covered in the forum.
Concurrently, I have visited local dealer, who is familiar with this issue and seemed knowledgeable about PZEV vehicles. Service Mgr. is unwilling to commit to anything until diagnostic work is done - which makes sense to me. Car goes in soon, with the understanding that if what needs repair is ultimately covered by warranty they will reimburse the diagnostic fee.
My warranty booklet has a protocol to follow if this has to go up the food chain so I'm following that protocol.
So.........I'm waiting to see what the problem is & whether they will cover it, and waiting on a response from MB customer service on my warranty coverage as a PZEV. Should know more in a few weeks.
The SM pointed out that the fuel pumps/sending units are integral to the fuel tank in PZEV vehicles which I confirmed - when I popped off the back seat and removed the "lid" there isn't anything there except what appears to be the top of the tank.
I have not been able to find other posts stating that PZEVs outside of PZEV states maintained their warranty - nor have I found any posts stating that MB rejected their claim. Unless I have missed them I don't see this covered in the forum.
Try looking for Pzev in the other forum. Probably things like gas leak or gasoline odor should turn it up. It's possible it was just covered under goodwill, but I think in theory if the car came with a 15/150k warranty when it was sold, it should still be in force no matter what state you're in. Same as a Pzev that was sold in a non-pzev state, in those cases they denied the warranty as in the non-pzev states only the 2 year warranty applied.
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211-20/
https://mbworld.org/forums/e-class-w211-20/
I had my local MB dealership replace my fuel tank.
I got lucky because my SA is a normal and logical person, having a relationship helps too. I think my 08 E350 was around 100k miles when my garage started to smell like fuel after fill ups.
I took off the rear seat cover and removed the fuel tank cover, i could see fuel pooling onto of the fuel tank. I took a picture of this fuel leak.
I contacted my SA via email and sent the photo of the fuel leak along with a copy of the PZEV warranty to him. I explained the PZEV situation and that this is a very common issue on the W211's. My SA checked with the warranty administrator and they approved my repair under warranty. A week later i dropped my car off and the tank was replaced same day as they had multiple tanks in stock.
I got lucky because my SA is a normal and logical person, having a relationship helps too. I think my 08 E350 was around 100k miles when my garage started to smell like fuel after fill ups.
I took off the rear seat cover and removed the fuel tank cover, i could see fuel pooling onto of the fuel tank. I took a picture of this fuel leak.
I contacted my SA via email and sent the photo of the fuel leak along with a copy of the PZEV warranty to him. I explained the PZEV situation and that this is a very common issue on the W211's. My SA checked with the warranty administrator and they approved my repair under warranty. A week later i dropped my car off and the tank was replaced same day as they had multiple tanks in stock.
To close this out - happily - I brought my car in to the dealership for diagnostic work which determined I had a leaking fuel pump. Since I have a PZEV the fuel pump is integral with the fuel tank and thus the pump could not be replaced by itself. My SA was able to confirm with MB Warranty that I in fact have a PZEV, and that the 15 year/150,000 mile Emissions Related Components Warranty* "travels with the car" (originally purchased in a PZEV state - CA - but I live in NC, and I bought it used in TX). So MB paid for fuel tank replacement. I brought the car in pretty empty since they needed it that way, and they even filled the car up for me. MY SA was great - he wasn't aware of PZEVs but came up the curve very quickly. Overall, what could have been a testy encounter with MB instead has me very pleased with how they handled it all.
* separate page in my warranty booklet for PZEVs
* separate page in my warranty booklet for PZEVs
I have a 2007 E350 and the fuel pump just went out. Now I need to find out if it is PZEV or ULEV and either way I am in trouble. 152,000 miles so the 15 year 150,000 mile warranty is probably not available to me. Car has not been serviced by a local dealer so no good will available. If it is PZEV are there options? I am looking to see other threads where this might have been addressed but still new and looking things up. Thanks for any tips.
What's the vin? It's expensive if you have to replace the tank, but that's just what MB does, I think some just use RTV or just replace the fuel pump. It's not that much compared to the cost of the whole tank.
I won't be able to see it till Wednesday and try to figure it out. I am taking a trailer with me figuring it will need a tow home. Trying to prepare. I see the PZEV tanks with pumps for sale $2200. Ouch. Hoping there is another fix or ability to install the standard gas tank. At 152,000 miles the car does not justify a $2200 fuel pump in my opinion. Very nice car but there are limits. Thanks
I am very experienced with Fuel Systems but not a sealed Mercedes tank. Not sure what they have done with the PZEV system. Are there any posts showing what others have found? I am away till Wednesday and will get more info and the Vin then. Sorry, I guess I am jumping in when I should have waited for more information. I was hoping to order a pump and get it on the way while I wait but that is not looking like an option. It is a California car but I have no idea if it is PZEV or not.
Well Damn, it is a PZEV and although registered as a 2007 the build date is Aug of 2006 so a couple weeks past the 15 year fuel tank / fuel pump warranty recall date. I think I may have a really nice car that is worth near nothing. Normal car, fuel pump $200, this car, $2100 plus and drop the exhaust and tank to begin the repair. I am hoping for other options.
Just swap in a non PZEV fuel tank.
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I have been searching for answers. Not sure the wire harness would adapt to a non PZEV System. If it has been done I will certainly do the tank swap. Any examples of a successful swap?
I could buy a tank install new pumps and the filter and lines and still be way ahead if it can work.
Thanks Mark
I could buy a tank install new pumps and the filter and lines and still be way ahead if it can work.
Thanks Mark
1999 S500; W140.051; 2003 E320; W211.065; 1973 220; W115.010
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1,212 Posts
Mark,
If you are at all DIY capable, you should remove the rear seat cushion which is super easy.
Then pull back sound insulation under the seat cushion to expose the round access covers on Right & Left sides in the floor/frame sheet metal. Removing those covers which is also easy will expose the pump & sender module assys on the top of the tank. Each cover is attached with 6X machine screws with 8mm hex head; very easy to remove those.
You can then check the electrical connectors.
For the non-PZEV version, electrical connections to the vehicle harness are all on the left (driver's) side.
Pic of connector below. I did see in EPC that there is also a connector adapter that may be needed in some cases. I didn't need that as the vehicle harness conn looked like the pic below and mated directly to the new VDO sender unit on the left side and all plumbing & electrical to the 'pump module' on the right side runs thru the tank.
I think that there is going to be an easy solution for any vehicle harness mismatch. If you could take a look at the conn on your unit, you would likely have the answer you need.
If you are at all DIY capable, you should remove the rear seat cushion which is super easy.
Then pull back sound insulation under the seat cushion to expose the round access covers on Right & Left sides in the floor/frame sheet metal. Removing those covers which is also easy will expose the pump & sender module assys on the top of the tank. Each cover is attached with 6X machine screws with 8mm hex head; very easy to remove those.
You can then check the electrical connectors.
For the non-PZEV version, electrical connections to the vehicle harness are all on the left (driver's) side.
Pic of connector below. I did see in EPC that there is also a connector adapter that may be needed in some cases. I didn't need that as the vehicle harness conn looked like the pic below and mated directly to the new VDO sender unit on the left side and all plumbing & electrical to the 'pump module' on the right side runs thru the tank.
I think that there is going to be an easy solution for any vehicle harness mismatch. If you could take a look at the conn on your unit, you would likely have the answer you need.
Attachments
I have the car up on jack stands now, from underneath there is little to see, the tank is covered pretty well by the shielding and exhaust/driveline. Looks like the exhaust and driveline need to come out to remove the tank. I just did that about a month ago to replace the driveline. Bad timing on the tank job for me. I perform major engine work all the time so working on a fuel pump does not make my knees weak but doing it right and keeping it legal is my concern. My 2007 PZEV version has access on the driver side to the filter and there are two wire connections at the top of the fliter cover, I have not removed it yet. The passenger side inspection cover when removed shows the tank on that side has no access at all to the pump as others have already confirmed is normal for PZEV. There are also no electrical connections on the passenger side. Makes me think the pump may be powered by the wire harness on the driver side. I will try and find a schematic. If a non PZEV tank could be used I could install that and a new pump and filter and still be in it less than $600. It is a failed pump, hooked up my fuel pressure gauge, turned the key to run and pressure was at zero. Hooked up my scan tool which allows me to turn the pump on or off manually. Pressure at zero while power is on, Took a rubber mallet and tapped on the tank above the pump on the passenger side and pressure jumped to 60 PSI. Started the car, it ran normally for less than a minute when I noticed the fuel pressure dropping quickly and the car stalled. I could tap the tank again and get pressure back for a restart but the same thing happens. Pump is bad. So I need to replace it. Wiring is good, no problem there. Usually a bad pump will make a growl when it runs, this one was still quiet but I noticed the AMP draw was about 10 Amps so that is not good it is shot.
I don't think there's a gas tank police so I think if you used something else, it would no longer meet the definition of PZEV, but I don't see how anyone is ever going to find out.
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