Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
500SE AMG, E350 4matic, GL 450
Joined
·
5,900 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Recent threads have gotten me thinking about the need for a guide to AMG engines. If there is not really a need, then just so I can get an understanding of this. So bare with me as I ask the questions.

From what I have read, there were two engine options of AMG engines-either 5.4L or 6.0L. Is that correct or were there other options?

From looking at the engine bay, can the 5.0 be differentiated from the 5.4 and from the 6.0?

If not, how can one tell between the three engine? If you have pictures to illustrate the difference and would not mind posting, that would be great.

Is there a difference between gen 1 vs gen 2?

If the valve covers do have to be removed, can someone post pictures of what to look for to confirm there have been modifications by AMG?

Thanks in advance!
 

·
Registered
500SE AMG, E350 4matic, GL 450
Joined
·
5,900 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Kawagirl but the link look to have post merger AMG info. I did not see any pre-merger stuff.
 

·
Registered
'82 Euro 500SEL, '85 Euro 500SEC AMG WB Cabriolet,'86 Euro 500SEC RUF
Joined
·
9,498 Posts
Pre merger gurus on the site Ian posted. I am a member there too.
 

·
R.I.P. Never Forgotten
1983-2007 MB's
Joined
·
8,023 Posts
Kawagirl, the opposite is true. That site has a lot of resources for pre-merger if you dig deeper. Scans of AMG literature for you to pour over - it is very fascinating.

To the OP, I'm not going to go on and on with information that can be found with searches, but to give a small inkling, I'll give a sampling:

During Gen1 (through MY 1985) AMG offered 5.0, 5.2, 5.4 versions of SOHC and DOHC. Out of the Gen1 strokers, the 5.2 is the most rare, SOHC 5.4's are a lot more common, a few DOHC 5.4's. Some early cars went in at a later time to be converted, and as thus, got the 6.0L version.

Gen2 (1986-91) came out with the 5.6 and 6.0 SOHC/DOHC motors, 5.2 and 5.4 versions dropped.

Telltale signs in a SOHC car would be in some cases, solid lifters with AMG 50-1 cams and clips under the valve rockers as pictured below. Also stickers on the radiator support, air filter, and valve covers themselves. Also some engine serial markings have had displacement stamped to the right (such as in member alydon's 500SEL 5.4 AMG). Exhaust manifolds would be 4-2-1's in some cases, but even AMG shipped engines with Euro logs.

Taking a borescope to the engine via sparkplug hole would take a look at the piston dish itself to discern if it is non-stock. In M119-land, it is much harder to tell the difference between a 5.0 and 6.0, but accomplished via measuring the stroke via a stick and cranking the engine by hand. The same can be accomplished in the M117.

alydon's stampings:



5.4 piston dish:







A pic of an early gen1 117.961 (circa 1981-2) with AMG cams and solid lifters. Stickers were worn, but left intact.





 

·
Registered
1966 250SE Cab, 1989 500SEL euro
Joined
·
3,570 Posts
And that's about as thorough as it gets without going crazy on the Search.
 

·
Premium Member
87 Euro500HVSEC. 88 Euro 560HVSEC. 89 Euro 560HVSEL
Joined
·
4,291 Posts
What a lot of people don't understand is how AMG derived the engine capacity
The 5 litre engine has a 96.5mm piston
To create a 5.4litre version AMG bored the cylinders out to 98.5mm and fitted custom 10:1 comp pistons to match the larger bore (as per the pic above) the original crank and conrods were retained.
(i am not sure what they did to create the 5.2litre version but must have bored out to say 97.5mm)
Of course they enlarged the valves, ported the heads and dropped in their own cams etc
They offered the heads in 16V or 32V version

When MB released the 5.6litre Gen2 M117968 engine it had a stroker crank installed but retained the same conrods as the M117965 5litre engine and all they did was change the piston pin height to accommodate the longer stroke. The M117965 5litre also got the same heads as the 5.6litre with the larger valves.
The block was still a 96.5mm bore but the stroker crank created a 5.6litre capacity

AMG then grabbed this stroker engine and bored it out to 100mm which created the 6litre engine. They dropped in Porsche 100mm 10:1 comp pistons.
Again they ported the heads and enlarged the valves etc and dropped in their own cams and offered the heads in 16v or 32v (32V creating more power and torque as the heads breathed better)

They did have trouble with the 100mm bores leaving 3.5mm less metal around the bores and quite a few blocks failing from cracked bores as it really made the block weaker taking that much alloy out.

It is considered now that 99mm is the limit of safety versus 100mm for peace of mind with these engine blocks.
(read Al's 5.4litre engine rebuild thread on this matter)
Mercedes AMG Classics Login
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top