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2002 E55
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Discussion Starter #1
I have several 4-way stops on my commute, and at least once a week somebody can't wait their turn. Almost got T-boned by an SL500 this morning.

This near miss raised a question for me on 4 way stop rules, and this is the best place I can think of for discussion.
Basic rules, as I understand them, is first to arrive goes first, and at crowded stops turns are taken in a clockwise fashion.
However, I often run into a situation like this morning, which happens frequently.
As I was approaching, the SUV to my left was just accelerating from the stop sign. He got their first, so no problems. Behind him is the SL500. No car to my right, and the car across from me was there a bit before me, so I let him go.
Here is where it gets tricky. I'm thinking I have priority over the guy in the SL who was behind the SUV. I was clearly here before he was, but off he goes into the intersection, slamming on his breaks to avoid a Mercedes sandwich.
I guess he was thinking "guy to my left just went, so clockwise I'm next."

So, who has priority? :confused:
This may seem trivial, but with as many 4 way stops as I see daily, anything to keep my bloodpressure down and my car in one piece is appreciated.
 

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sometimes in that situation you either have to be assertive (aggressive) and go if everyone is just twiddling their thumbs, or sit out and wait a few turns before you have no doubt that you're the only one going. Sometimes everyone just sits and stares waiting for someone else to make that first move. Obviously you leave the stop slowly but once you get going you have the right of way.
 

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That is a great Q: I have always thought that who ever stops first gets to go first (like you did today) Hmmm? :confused:
 

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Discussion Starter #4
acarter53 said:
That is a great Q: I have always thought that who ever stops first gets to go first (like you did today) Hmmm? :confused:
I think that is rule #1. The murkiness is that sort of underlying rule #2, as applied when everyone gets there at the same time. I seem to recall that in that situation, one driver creeps out and goes, and once that happens, the rest go in clockwise fashion.
The "clockwise" piece can conflict with the "who gets there first" piece in what happened to me today.

Perhaps someone here has the the answer . . .
 

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I follow all the rules stated above as well, especially the assertive/agressive part for those who can't make a call.... I'll just go and decide for them who's turn it is... and its usually mine by that time. One addition is that following a simple clockwise rotation (yielding to the car on your right) is inefficient, so I go with opposing traffic. So basically cars going in opposite directions go at the same time, so 2 cars can enter the intersection together (a car turning would yield to the car going straight).

Do people follow what I'm saying? I think this can be confusing without diagrams.
 

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Of course this all changes if you are in California. Here are the revised priorities for our proud state.

1. Cyclist go first. By divine right of not having to abide by either the rules of the pedestrian nor motor vehicle, they have annointed themselves the pc police of the road. If you don't let them go, they will kick your car and drive off. In SF, cops will back them.
2. First-generation Chinese go next. Since they will always be staring straight ahead and never acknowledge your presence, how can you have gotten there first?
3. Immigrant workers go next. No one wants to mess with the uninsured, especially when there is a 20 percent chance that they are already working the insurance scam racket.
4. Gang-bangers go next. The 50Cent, 2Pac, and NWA songs have done their work, and we are all leery of being the next 187 on da bloc.
5. SUV goes next. They are mad that everyone else hates them for being enviroment wreckers. Can't argue with 3 tons of pissed-off soccer mom in a Navigator.
6. Limo tint goes next. Can't tell who is driving. Could be the Governator, or just another postal worker having a bad day.
7. After that its just a mad scramble for the rest of us trying to act assertive to preserve our dignity... yet ready to back off at the sign of any of the above.

Note - I claim shelter from any accusation of racism or bigotry by being intimimately related to or personally embodying all of the above factors.
 

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Tagsley said:
Of course this all changes if you are in California. Here are the revised priorities for our proud state.

1. Cyclist go first. By divine right of not having to abide by either the rules of the pedestrian nor motor vehicle, they have annointed themselves the pc police of the road. If you don't let them go, they will kick your car and drive off. In SF, cops will back them.
2. First-generation Chinese go next. Since they will always be staring straight ahead and never acknowledge your presence, how can you have gotten there first?
3. Immigrant workers go next. No one wants to mess with the uninsured, especially when there is a 20 percent chance that they are already working the insurance scam racket.
4. Gang-bangers go next. The 50Cent, 2Pac, and NWA songs have done their work, and we are all leery of being the next 187 on da bloc.
5. SUV goes next. They are mad that everyone else hates them for being enviroment wreckers. Can't argue with 3 tons of pissed-off soccer mom in a Navigator.
6. Limo tint goes next. Can't tell who is driving. Could be the Governator, or just another postal worker having a bad day.
7. After that its just a mad scramble for the rest of us trying to act assertive to preserve our dignity... yet ready to back off at the sign of any of the above.

Note - I claim shelter from any accusation of racism or bigotry by being intimimately related to or personally embodying all of the above factors.



ROFL
 

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In Portland neighborhoods we have 'no-way' stops. Car on the right legally has right of way.

When there is a stop sign, it typically goes that cars across from each other go at the same time. If someone needs to turn across traffic, they wait until the other person has gone straight.
 

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In Boston its a "do or die" type maneuver - if you don't go when "you really shouldnt" the guy behind you will rearend you as he/she is anticipating that you will go when its most dangerous.

I think Mass law states car on your right has right-of-way - but i think seldom do drivers practice this. Good thing we have 5.5 litres to get us out of harms way - the WOT has saved me on a few occasions especially in nyc.

By the way r_liebo how did you go from a shcwinn 10 speed to a 733i - Any mopeds in there your not telling us about?:D
 

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leomd said:
In Boston its a "do or die" type maneuver - if you don't go when "you really shouldnt" the guy behind you will rearend you as he/she is anticipating that you will go when its most dangerous.
Yikes :D
 

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Discussion Starter #12
leomd said:
By the way r_liebo how did you go from a shcwinn 10 speed to a 733i - Any mopeds in there your not telling us about?:D
Acutally, there was. My family had an olive green Puch Moped, purchased circa 1980 during their first wave of popularity in the U.S. It had a pedal start, requiring you to get pedaling fast, pull a lever on the handle, and press the start button at the same time. It usually took several runs down the hill to get it going by the time I was driving it (age 14, if I recall). I think it ran on a gas/oil combo.

We had two helmets. One official motor bike helmet (driver) and a Vietnam war era helicoptor helmet (complete with opaque blast shield) (passenger). It had the communication equipment in the ears removed, so it was quite large on the heads of my sybling passengers. It was kept on by use of a belt that was transformed into a makeshift chin strap. Back in the 1970s this was considered a safe option, as back then only the really nerdy kids even wore bike helmets.

I used to drive it up to convenience stores and around the neighborhood. Speedo maxed at 30MPH, but you could only hit that going downhill -- otherwise max was about 27mph.
I'm sure I looked pretty stupid on it, but it was way better than the alternatives for a 14 year old kid. After I got my license it sat dormant in the family garage of my house until it was actually stolen the year before I went to college (at least that's what my parents said-- they may have just dumped it in the nearest trash bin).
This is pretty close to what it looked like:

 

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Dying laughing! - I too had a Puch in 1984 i think it was a Magnum...back then that was the Benz of all mopeds - I went from a standard bmx bike to a amc moped (which was slower then a bike) and then the Puch magnum. Never had a helmet nor did i have the money for one but at 14 this was the only transpo you could have without a license or insurance - it represented all the freedom of the world. I recall cutting holes in the airbox to try to create some sort of ram-air effect to top 30mph but it only did the opposite and left the engine limping along - learned my mod lessons early on...too bad the Puch didnt have an adaptive ECU :)
 

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Funny, I too had a moped at the age of 14. I forget the name of mine, but it was faster than the standard Puch's at the time. I think it was an Odyssey. I quickly felt a need for more speed and upgraded to a Vespa 90 which toped out at 43 MPH with my waif like body on it.

I end up collecting a couple more vespas and they all layed dorminent until I got out of college and had a place to store them. That's when the obsession started all over again. Soon after that I found and restored a 1957 Vespa GS which topped out at 62 in a straight line. In it's day it was the fastest production scooter and would win all of the races in Europe. I formed a club and would tour New England on these things taking day trips to Maine, New Hampshire and Rhode Island and longer trips to Martha's Vineyard. My girl friend / now wife even got one and road to Martha's Vineyard with me. Lots of fun...
 

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Tagsley said:
Of course this all changes if you are in California. Here are the revised priorities for our proud state.

1. Cyclist go first. By divine right of not having to abide by either the rules of the pedestrian nor motor vehicle, they have annointed themselves the pc police of the road. If you don't let them go, they will kick your car and drive off. In SF, cops will back them.
2. First-generation Chinese go next. Since they will always be staring straight ahead and never acknowledge your presence, how can you have gotten there first?
3. Immigrant workers go next. No one wants to mess with the uninsured, especially when there is a 20 percent chance that they are already working the insurance scam racket.
4. Gang-bangers go next. The 50Cent, 2Pac, and NWA songs have done their work, and we are all leery of being the next 187 on da bloc.
5. SUV goes next. They are mad that everyone else hates them for being enviroment wreckers. Can't argue with 3 tons of pissed-off soccer mom in a Navigator.
6. Limo tint goes next. Can't tell who is driving. Could be the Governator, or just another postal worker having a bad day.
7. After that its just a mad scramble for the rest of us trying to act assertive to preserve our dignity... yet ready to back off at the sign of any of the above.

Note - I claim shelter from any accusation of racism or bigotry by being intimimately related to or personally embodying all of the above factors.
:thumbsup: :big laugh: :big laugh: :big laugh: :big laugh: :big laugh:

You could not be more correct and I love how you went in that order, wow. I would say when I run into that situation, I actualy will wave the sceptic to go b4 me so as I avoid an accident, than I go, but there is times that aggressive driving is needed and you have to hall ass and just be happy your not back there waiting. Also I follow that rule when the Lights arent working and they place stop signs up.....
 

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Discussion Starter #16
leomd said:
Dying laughing! - I too had a Puch in 1984 i think it was a Magnum...back then that was the Benz of all mopeds - I went from a standard bmx bike to a amc moped (which was slower then a bike) and then the Puch magnum. Never had a helmet nor did i have the money for one but at 14 this was the only transpo you could have without a license or insurance - it represented all the freedom of the world. I recall cutting holes in the airbox to try to create some sort of ram-air effect to top 30mph but it only did the opposite and left the engine limping along - learned my mod lessons early on...too bad the Puch didnt have an adaptive ECU :)
Your's looks a bit tougher than mine did. Freedom was pretty cool at that age, for sure. One my friends was so jealous he got his mom to buy him a new Honda scooter with push-button start. Much more convenient, but it didn't have the character of the of the Puch. I do remember the logo being somewhat BMW-esqe. Don't remember exactly what it was. Never tried to mod it, but I would find the longest and steepest downhills to see how fast I could get it to go, even if it meant going up a neighbors steep driveway.
 

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In Florida the rules say this: "You must yield the right-of-way to all other traffic and pedestrians at stop signs. Move forward only when the road is clear. At four-way stops, the first vehicle to stop should move forward first. If two vehicles reach the intersection at the same time, the driver on the left yields to the driver on the right."

Generally the saying goes that you NEVER have right of way at any time. I think this means that you cannot use this concept as a defense and that whoever forces the issue will get ticketed.

But..........I'm no lawyer...........but I did just finish traffic school.
 
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