Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Will post a write up sooner or later, in the meantime just the pictures.
Enjoy
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
948 Posts
That Mysterious European E/S Shifter Switch

Will post a write up sooner or later, in the meantime just the pictures.
Enjoy
The following is from a Staff Member from the 500E Board Forum, dated from 2012....

That Mysterious European E/S Shifter Switch

You've probably seen that E/S shift program selector switch on most European 124 models, also used on a number of other chassies.

There's some debate as to the exact meaning of the letters but it's basically "Economy" vs "Sport/Standard".

Now, I always thought the USA cars, without this fancy setup, were defaulted to the "Economy" setting, and if I installed the system I could get a "Sport" setting.

Well, I fiddled around with one of these units on the bench, and made a depressing discovery..... the additional function adds the Economy Mode. :eek :eek

In other words, all US-spec models already have the "Sport" mode all the time. Adding the switch, vac plumbing, and dual-chamber Bowden cable would just allow me to add an Economy mode. Bah, humbug! :frown

Basically the system limits the travel of the control plunger in the tranny... instead of the normal 40mm total travel on the cable, the Economy setting limits the travel to about 25mm max.

So you'd always get relatively low shift points, even at (for example) 50-90% throttle.

At 100% throttle the kickdown switch/solenoid should activate and bump the shift points to redline, in either E or S mode.


Blessings, Arctic
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I know, the US standard is Sport mode. But I now have an Economy option while I'm stuck in low moving traffic and I have to say, the ride is more smooth!
 

·
Outstanding Contributor
Joined
·
1,977 Posts
For the V12 point of view...

In heavy stop and go traffic; the combination of drive by wire (later models), S selected on the tranny rocker (1st gear start) and AN ABUNDANCE of low end torque results in a jerky start and stop ride. Switching the tranny rocker to W forces the tranny to start in 2nd gear and the result is a very civilized heavy traffic experience.

To be sure, the E(W) setting has its uses.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
127 Posts
Attachment contains European user guide page of S and E transmission modes, in early R129 up to 1993. Even in Standard mode the car moves from standstill in 2nd gear except kick-down. In addition, shift points can be adjusted to driver's preferences in the pre-722.6 trannies.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
Will post a write up sooner or later, in the meantime just the pictures.
Enjoy
Hello

Do you have the full diagram of the picture titled e-s.jpg?

I have the E/S switch in my car but I feel the vacuum line is not connected properly or something is missing, as my car behaves very differently in E mode.

In E mode, the shift points are the same but the car tends to stay in gear at low speeds. Meaning that if I let off the gas, it won't upshift and keep me in 3rd for example until I depress the pedal again.

It also doesn't engine brake on E mode. It downshifts in a very stealthy manner and the rpm drops as of the car was in neutral. Press the gas pedal and the rpms would fly all the way to around 4k rpm before it feels like it engaged a gear....this feels sort of like rev matching. Hard to explain.

This is why I feel the vacuum line is connected to the wrong port or something is missing. Did you connect only one vacuum line, as I see multiple ones in your pics.

And what exactly where you measuring with the multimeter?

Looking forward to your write-up
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Hello

Do you have the full diagram of the picture titled e-s.jpg?

I have the E/S switch in my car but I feel the vacuum line is not connected properly or something is missing, as my car behaves very differently in E mode.

In E mode, the shift points are the same but the car tends to stay in gear at low speeds. Meaning that if I let off the gas, it won't upshift and keep me in 3rd for example until I depress the pedal again.

It also doesn't engine brake on E mode. It downshifts in a very stealthy manner and the rpm drops as of the car was in neutral. Press the gas pedal and the rpms would fly all the way to around 4k rpm before it feels like it engaged a gear....this feels sort of like rev matching. Hard to explain.

This is why I feel the vacuum line is connected to the wrong port or something is missing. Did you connect only one vacuum line, as I see multiple ones in your pics.

And what exactly where you measuring with the multimeter?

Looking forward to your write-up
You may have some vacuum line disconnected, in particular the one(s) connecting to the shift delay/bowden cable actuator on the transmission (IMG_3756.JPG).
With the multimeter I was testing the positive connection to the switchover valve that I added (IMG_3755.JPG) that it is directly connected to the E/S switch.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
You may have some vacuum line disconnected, in particular the one(s) connecting to the shift delay/bowden cable actuator on the transmission (IMG_3756.JPG).
With the multimeter I was testing the positive connection to the switchover valve that I added (IMG_3755.JPG) that it is directly connected to the E/S switch.
Hey Doohan

I think I know why mine is wrong. See in your second pic in the post above you have 4 vacuum lines connected to two switchover valves. In my car the 16 pin diagnostic module is in that position and mine is connected to the firewall on the driver side next to the brake booster with only 1 switchover valve and 2 vacuum lines.

What are the other lines connected to. In my case one line is for the e/s vacuum module and the other line is the vacuum modulator responsible for harsh and soft shifts.

I'll post some pics. I do have another set of switchover valves under the cover where the main ecu of the car sits. Right behind the firewall of your picture on the passenger side.

I think if mine is connected with 4 vacuum lines like yours then my E mode would work properly.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
From year to year and different market the specs and location of the switchover valves could be different. I just added the E/S one close to what you describe as the one "responsible for harsh and soft shifts" which is not. That switchover valve is for the "delayed upswitch" for when the engine is cold. The "harsh and soft shifts" are controlled on the side of the transmission with a direct vacuum line that comes from the intake manifold.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
From year to year and different market the specs and location of the switchover valves could be different. I just added the E/S one close to what you describe as the one "responsible for harsh and soft shifts" which is not. That switchover valve is for the "delayed upswitch" for when the engine is cold. The "harsh and soft shifts" are controlled on the side of the transmission with a direct vacuum line that comes from the intake manifold.
Hmm.. so my vacuum modulator is not connected to the right port. Where does it connect on the intake manifold?

And what are the other 3 vacuum lines you got there as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Hmm.. so my vacuum modulator is not connected to the right port. Where does it connect on the intake manifold?

And what are the other 3 vacuum lines you got there as well?
IMG_3738.jpg is before. IMG_3755.JPG is after adding the second switchover valve for the E/S switch.
The vacuum modulator is located on the left side of the transmission, #80 in the schematic below, the vacuum line is #92 that connect in #86 on the intake manifold.
359936d1298942347-test-epc-r129-vaccum-diagram-2.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
One more thing Doohan

Is the Vacuum line for the E/S switch connected directly to the switchover valve as one vacuum line or is there like a y-pipe somewhere that splits it into two vacuum lines?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
One more thing Doohan

Is the Vacuum line for the E/S switch connected directly to the switchover valve as one vacuum line or is there like a y-pipe somewhere that splits it into two vacuum lines?
You can use a Y pipe on the delayed upswitch switchover valve or like I did, use one of the available ports on the vacuum distributor block module.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
IMG_3738.jpg is before. IMG_3755.JPG is after adding the second switchover valve for the E/S switch.
The vacuum modulator is located on the left side of the transmission, #80 in the schematic below, the vacuum line is #92 that connect in #86 on the intake manifold. View attachment 2603760
That diagram also shows one vacuum line from the e/s module that runs along #95 and connects to # 101

So the other vacuum lines on your first switchover valve are irrelevant to the transmission.

Ok if the vacuum modulator connects to the intake manifold, what is the 2nd vacuum line on your 2nd switchover valve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
133 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
That diagram also shows one vacuum line from the e/s module that runs along #95 and connects to # 101

So the other vacuum lines on your first switchover valve are irrelevant to the transmission.

Ok if the vacuum modulator connects to the intake manifold, what is the 2nd vacuum line on your 2nd switchover valve
No, there is no E/S switchover valve shown in the above schematic. #101 is the delayed upswitch switchover valve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
No, there is no E/S switchover valve shown in the above schematic. #101 is the delayed upswitch switchover valve.
Aha I see. So in total three vacuum lines go out from the transmission. Both the delayed upswitch and the e/s module should connect to the switchover valve. While the vacuum modulator should connect to the intake manifold.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
About this Discussion
16 Replies
5 Participants
AG129
Mercedes-Benz Forum
BenzWorld.org forum is one of the largest Mercedes-Benz owner websites offering the most comprehensive collection of Mercedes-Benz information anywhere in the world. The site includes MB Forums, News, Galleries, Publications, Classifieds, Events and much more!
Full Forum Listing
Top