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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Anyone know how to reset the adaptive without going to the stealers?
 

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SEC 600 V12 2dr COUPE (RHD) One of the chosen few.
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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Need to get some info on this.. now they have introduced ETHANOL into the petrol in the UK my car keeps playing up.. I had a thread about this many moons ago.. THe adaptive is set on my car at 1.5%+/-..but on the later cars it is at 10% i think.. Anyway I know it is a lot greater.. So tech boys.. lets have your 2 pence worth...
 

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the mercedes way of fixing this is to replace the PCM

a budget fix is to take the PCM apart and desolder the EEPROM that holds tha system log, hook it to a reader writer, and erase it.
 

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As long as there is and EEPROM to remove and read, i do not see any issues.
I still have a couple of programs that might disassemble the dinosaur code used in the LH Jetronic and the recompiling of a new BIN.

Once the old code is disassembled the the new code can be written in place and flashed onto new EEPROM. Theres a very good chance the we could tweak the code and even add a lean burn code under cruise for better fuel mileage and we could also code in multiple maps to be picked by a selected input such as TPS by depressing the throttle a certain number of times to pick the selected map.

This is just a few ideas on paper, once theres a BIN file theres a lot more we could mess with.
 

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1996 S320 (Kuro) 1998 S600 (Weiss)
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As long as there is and EEPROM to remove and read, i do not see any issues.
I still have a couple of programs that might disassemble the dinosaur code used in the LH Jetronic and the recompiling of a new BIN.

Once the old code is disassembled the the new code can be written in place and flashed onto new EEPROM. Theres a very good chance the we could tweak the code and even add a lean burn code under cruise for better fuel mileage and we could also code in multiple maps to be picked by a selected input such as TPS by depressing the throttle a certain number of times to pick the selected map.

This is just a few ideas on paper, once theres a BIN file theres a lot more we could mess with.

You sound quite knowledgeable on this subject - how realistic does doing this seem and what are the risks?
 

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Watching this topic VERY closely. Sounds interesting. What kind of probs you having 600?
 

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You sound quite knowledgeable on this subject - how realistic does doing this seem and what are the risks?
yes sadly i had a lot of first hand experience tuning my 98 Eclipse GSX that i had a lot of bolt ons, but i was using a similar method using the ostrich as an emulator to get a the proper tuning before burning the proper EEPROM.
i still have my ostrich and will try and see if i can get another ECU for testing and experimenting with the ostrich setup.
i might have to reinvest into a Dual Chanel wide band controller to keep a close eye on AFR's during the conditioning of the lean burn code.
I always went for a nice long drive that would allow me to drive the car in part and full throtle pulls and get a nice and clean datalog to tune by.
my main goal here is to improve the efficiency of the engine and cut gas consumtion down in part and cruise modes while improving power and throtle response at under heavy loads.
 

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SEC 600 V12 2dr COUPE (RHD) One of the chosen few.
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I did read that there was an update onto the ECU via WIS but this cannot be verified unless i go back through all the stuff I have.. Adrian your theory seems to hold water.. do you need a ecu chip to get it started.. I was thinking along the same lines ..What I would like in an Ideal world would be like this..
1.. run twelve at startup to get to temp..=after the air pump stops.. the drop to 4, but aternate the 4 every 500 revs so that you dont get wear or heat build..( need to think about how the Lambda sensor will behave. with an air rich exhaust.).
2.. all 12 when you put your foot down to accelerate.. then 6 when you get to cruise speed at a per determined.. again alternate the 6 every 1000 revs to keep a even temp in the block.
then back to 4 when you are at lights or in very slow traffic..
just to let you know the price here is going up by the day.. it is now £[email protected] 2$=2.50 per Liter.. my tank is 100 liters ..$250 + to fill up.. soon the petrol will be worth more than the car.. Let me know if I can help in any way...
 

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I did read that there was an update onto the ECU via WIS but this cannot be verified unless i go back through all the stuff I have.. Adrian your theory seems to hold water.. do you need a ecu chip to get it started.. I was thinking along the same lines ..What I would like in an Ideal world would be like this..
1.. run twelve at startup to get to temp..=after the air pump stops.. the drop to 4, but aternate the 4 every 500 revs so that you dont get wear or heat build..( need to think about how the Lambda sensor will behave. with an air rich exhaust.).
2.. all 12 when you put your foot down to accelerate.. then 6 when you get to cruise speed at a per determined.. again alternate the 6 every 1000 revs to keep a even temp in the block.
then back to 4 when you are at lights or in very slow traffic..
just to let you know the price here is going up by the day.. it is now £[email protected] 2$=2.50 per Liter.. my tank is 100 liters ..$250 + to fill up.. soon the petrol will be worth more than the car.. Let me know if I can help in any way...
OK
thats not a bad idea, but thats actually good.
what i was thinking is something a lil bit more simpler and that is to cut back the fuel under cruise to a very high AFR going from the Standard 14.7 to 15+
and that under cruise will probaly put us in the low 20MPG range...
has a similar code on my eclipse since it was a pig on gas while under boost ( 4x 1200CC/Min which were at 88% duty at 8700Rpms !! )
and its easier than the variable displacement technique you came up with.
mine all it takes is to go into the fueling table and change a couple of parameters.

and same can be done to the timing table.

Also i have a question while were on this subject..
who makes a performance header for the M120 ??
looking for a nice equal length design with a 6 into 2 into 1 ...
yes i have issues

The way i look at an engines efficiency is that the faster you get air in and out of the combustion chamber, the more efficient the engine is.
maybe down the road i will mess with a intake manifold design for ITB's and go back to cable actuated throtle :p :bowdown:
will see
 

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Did anyone consider running only 4 cylinders on long distance drives.. (or 6 on V12) same way its one that new 300C (with hemi V8) i wonder if there would be way of disconnecting 4 injectors and plugs so you end up with kind of V4 engine (and have them possibly rotating so you dont have always the same cylinders switched off)
Is this a insane idea on W140 or could it be done?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Did anyone consider running only 4 cylinders on long distance drives.. (or 6 on V12) same way its one that new 300C (with hemi V8) i wonder if there would be way of disconnecting 4 injectors and plugs so you end up with kind of V4 engine (and have them possibly rotating so you dont have always the same cylinders switched off)
Is this a insane idea on W140 or could it be done?
It can.. and ..it willl:eek:
 

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It can.. and ..it willl:eek:
DOD (Displacement On Demand) is a good idea, but it will require a 2x10 table and quite a bit of coding for it to work properly.
the only downfall i see is that we don't know anything about the EEPROM and how much room there is left on it since it could take up quite a bit of room for the whole code and maintaining the emissions related coding.
All depends really on how much room is left on the ROM ..
thats why we need to find out some specifics.
We could code a 2 Stage DOD program:
6Cyl Mode - for loads up to -> 35%
8Cyl Mode - for loads between 36% -> 70%
12Cyl mode - for loads between 71% -> and up.

The issue i see is the we might require different timing and fueling table for each mode to be the most efficient.
This would be the way to do it, but it would require a lot of memory...
Like i said..
First we need to know what processor and ROM were dealing with to see how much "real estate" we have left before we start to hack the original code and remove the unnecessary code.

The only problem i forsee is the O2 Sensors reading extremely lean and trying to richen the mixture by increasing the injector pulse length and dumping more fuel, and the standard narrow band oxygen sensors have a really bad response time and with the extra air comming in and seeing extremely lean mixtures the computer will try to compensate. The main issue is the extreme inacuracy of narrow band sensors we might have to upgrade to wide band units and controlers, but we would have to see if the input on the ECU's can handle 5V inputs and then we would have to recode EACH of the 4 Tables on a WB scale.
 

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1998 140.070 CL500, 1966 406.121 U65
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Did anyone consider running only 4 cylinders on long distance drives.. (or 6 on V12) same way its one that new 300C (with hemi V8) i wonder if there would be way of disconnecting 4 injectors and plugs so you end up with kind of V4 engine (and have them possibly rotating so you dont have always the same cylinders switched off)
Is this a insane idea on W140 or could it be done?
Here I go again, spoiling all the fun ;-)

I must say you all have a admirable drive to improve the fuel economy
of the M120/M119.

However, reading the reference to the 300C, got me searching for
how such a system is done. (and if you will excuse me doing some referencing to
wikipedia...);

Variable displacement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Active Fuel Management - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The real saver of such a system (6%-20%), is to let the non-active
cylinders be completely out of the loop cycle.
Since that involves not only cutting spark and fuel, but also intake
and exhaust valves, I think you will have a hard time modifying the
M119 and M120.

Mercedes had a system called ACC, on the M138 and optionally on the M113.
I cannot find reference to how its done, but I think, that it is modifications
done to the variable intake, to simply not supply air to one of the banks.
New Wheels

However, modifying the fuel delivery to the M120 and M119 for the early
variants to behave like the later (shut-off in braking, etc), I guess could be done.

br,
syljua
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Adrian I dont think you need to turn off the spark or the valves .. just the injector pulse..I have two chips I could donate.. I also could find out if there is one with more ram...The lamda sensor could be done with a slow memory release.. hold the optimum and feed that to the control input..with some soft of indication on the dash...How about a Via nano or similar to run it ?? display and everything ???
 

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Merc600sec said:
Adrian I don't think you need to turn off the spark or the valves .. just the injector pulse..I have two chips I could donate.. I also could find out if there is one with more ram...The lamda sensor could be done with a slow memory release.. hold the optimum and feed that to the control input..with some soft of indication on the dash...How about a Via nano or similar to run it ?? display and everything ???
I don't see the need to turn off the spark because with the injector off there isn't going to be an ignition event with out any fuel in the cylinder. and it would be a pain on earlier cars that have a distributor.

Syljua said:
The real saver of such a system (6%-20%), is to let the non-active cylinders be completely out of the loop cycle.
Since that involves not only cutting spark and fuel, but also intake and exhaust valves, I think you will have a hard time modifying the M119 and M120.
Thats the flow issue i was talking about earlier.
even though not necessary to disable the inactive cylinders, it would be even more complex to do it with rolling code to alternate the cylinders being dropped that would mean each cylinder would require a separate hydraulic controller to cut oil pressure to the lifters so they would collapse and would prevent the valve from opening, and also a high volume/pressure oil pump to meet the new needs of such a system.

Another way i thought we could achieve the rolling drop is based an idea derived from the WRC Cars in their older ALS ( Anti Lag System ), but we will be doing the opposite, where instead of cutting the spark to every other cylinder each cycle we will cut fuel to every other cylinder.
Also brainstormed about this a bit and came up with the idea the we could ignore the O2 input in DOD mode and rely entirely on the MAF sensors to meter the amount of fuel needed and divide the actual flow to the mode that were in.
As an example :
780 CFM flow - this means each cylinder flows 65 CFM
in 6cyl mode will only be fueling for 390CFM
in 8cyl mode will be only fueling for 520CFM

if we set our tables up flow based and to ignore O2 input while in DOD we could get away with it :thumbsup:
 

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1998 140.070 CL500, 1966 406.121 U65
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Thats the flow issue i was talking about earlier.
even though not necessary to disable the inactive cylinders, it would be even more complex to do it with rolling code to alternate the cylinders being dropped that would mean each cylinder would require a separate hydraulic controller to cut oil pressure to the lifters so they would collapse and would prevent the valve from opening, and also a high volume/pressure oil pump to meet the new needs of such a system.
Obviously, you have great knowledge on this! Can you please explain;
if you do not try to eliminate the "pumping loss" part of the system,
will you gain any advantages at all?

As an programming feat, surely impressive task to reverse engineer
and make it work, but will it be any better than 500
Mercedes engine engineers did at the time?

br,
syljua
 

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1996 S320 (Kuro) 1998 S600 (Weiss)
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Obviously, you have great knowledge on this! Can you please explain;
if you do not try to eliminate the "pumping loss" part of the system,
will you gain any advantages at all?

As an programming feat, surely impressive task to reverse engineer
and make it work, but will it be any better than 500
Mercedes engine engineers did at the time?

br,
syljua

Don't forget though - they weren't particularily concerned with petrol prices at the time - things have changed for us all haven't they? :crybaby2:
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ahh.. but I dont have a distributor.. I have TWO.. so does that put me out of the loop?
 
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