Mercedes-Benz Forum banner
221 - 240 of 290 Posts

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #222 ·
Nice thread hijack…
Don't worry. I have nothing to add right now. Still recovering after the drive back yesterday. Aspen to Fort Worth, TX in a single day.

Remember those "luggage racks" of yesterday?
Chrome bars you strap luggage on ... just plop the tire on the luggage rack and secure with bungee cords.
This actually doesn't sound like a horrible idea. Maybe some lower profile ones, and a removal of the third brake light. Maybe not chrome though :)
 

·
Registered
'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
Joined
·
323 Posts
That calculator doesn't work. It claims 5000 critical speed regardless of the DS setup. I understand this is a real concern but pretty much zero American cars from the 60-80's use a two piece driveshaft. You really don't hear about a bunch of muscle cars that just threw drive shafts out at speed. Broken on the starting line of a prepped dragstrip happens fur sure, but this car is 96" wheelbase, using a much longer trans than a manual Mercedes box also. It's not going to be crazy long.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
No my point was that no DS on thier calculator would go above 5000rpm. I can tell you mine is still in my car and it's been way beyond the 5850 rpm redline in 4th gear with the 3.69 rear.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #224 ·
So small update. Not a whole ton to discuss right now, because my parents are about to go on a week vacation of their own, but my dad took the heads to his shop to blast them in their parts washer, replace the springs, and maybe do a valve job. He said he wanted to do all that stuff, because he wants to use his professional tools on it, instead of just slapping it onto the block in mediocre condition. Fine by me, because I get to take a break.

But I should have those back from him soon. I’ll probably work on the engine alone while he’s gone, do a test fire up on the engine stand, and begin test fitting and measuring for mounts.
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #225 ·
Look what arrived today! 4 were left in my hallway at my apartment door. 😂

Anyways, I’d take them up to the shop to test fit them, but I’m currently dealing with potential buyers of my 2006 SL55. It has 85,000 miles and is listed at $19k, so people are absolutely hounding me. I’m hoping to sell it quick because I hate dealing with people sometimes.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
1987 300SL
Joined
·
1,711 Posts
Had this come up in Mercedes-Benz SL 107 facebook page today. It's an LS1 + T56 manual swap into a 380SL, 350bhp. Says he's spent $5k on parts so far

Car Vehicle Hood Motor vehicle Automotive design
Car Vehicle Land vehicle Motor vehicle Speedometer


Driving but not quite finished yet. Couple of things he mentioned during the conversion, needed the obvious engine mounts, had to grind the engine block and MB steering box for clearance, maintained stock steering components, subframe remained stock with front sump + relocation kit (?), cut up trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel, relocate parking brake, changed radiator support panel, relocate oil filter, plus other bits
 

·
Registered
1983 380SL, ivory/dk brown, 46k miles, dual roller timing chain. 1986 560SL, red/white, 190K mile.
Joined
·
8,685 Posts
Nice. Love to take it for a test drive.
Looks like it might need a "bubble" on the hood though.
 

·
Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
Joined
·
24,300 Posts
Look what arrived today! 4 were left in my hallway at my apartment door.
Can’t wait to hear if these fit on the front of the 560sl. I do not expect them to fit.
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #230 ·
Can’t wait to hear if these fit on the front of the 560sl. I do not expect them to fit.
You were right! Turns out they’ll still need a spacer. I contacted their support and they’re surprised because apparently they were capable of fitting their 560SL with no issues. They said that it seems like Mercedes may have used multiple types of brake calipers through the 560SL model years. Is this true?

I didn’t bring my measurement caliper, but you can see the fronts definitely won’t fit.
Wheel Tire Automotive tire Hubcap Locking hubs
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Locking hubs Vehicle brake



Had this come up in Mercedes-Benz SL 107 facebook page today. It's an LS1 + T56 manual swap into a 380SL, 350bhp. Says he's spent $5k on parts so far

View attachment 2714810 View attachment 2714809

Driving but not quite finished yet. Couple of things he mentioned during the conversion, needed the obvious engine mounts, had to grind the engine block and MB steering box for clearance, maintained stock steering components, subframe remained stock with front sump + relocation kit (?), cut up trans tunnel and driveshaft tunnel, relocate parking brake, changed radiator support panel, relocate oil filter, plus other bits
That’s a pretty cool setup. I’m starting to think I may not need to cut out the transmission tunnel much, if at all though. The T56 is massive in girth. That and the 380SL is actually apparently ~8 inches shorter in length than the 560SL. I had to check multiple sources because I thought that was a typo, but multiple places corroborated it.


I once drove an SLC with a Chevy 350. Not an improvement.
Was it a Gen 1-2 350? Those are sloggy from what I’ve seen. A free breathing 6.0 or 6.2 can be quite torquey though. Got to play around in a corvette the other day.
 

·
Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
Joined
·
24,300 Posts
You were right! Turns out they’ll still need a spacer. I contacted their support and they’re surprised because apparently they were capable of fitting their 560SL with no issues. They said that it seems like Mercedes may have used multiple types of brake calipers through the 560SL model years. Is this true?

I didn’t bring my measurement caliper, but you can see the fronts definitely won’t fit.
View attachment 2714913 View attachment 2714912

.
Not true. Not the first time they were full of shit and told someone they’d fit and shipped them to them. A lot of times people will buy things and never even try to use them. So they try to make the sale anyway, sometimes knowing they won’t fit, but maybe just being ignorant. They surely fit a 560sel, but they clearly don’t understand that that’s a different car.

Personally I think you should demand your money back and tell them to send you a return label. But they do look like you could make them work with a spacer… if that’s what you want for your brand new wheels.
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #232 ·
Not true. Not the first time they were full of shit and told someone they’d fit and shipped them to them. A lot of times people will buy things and never even try to use them. So they try to make the sale anyway, sometimes knowing they won’t fit, but maybe just being ignorant. They surely fit a 560sel, but they clearly don’t understand that that’s a different car.

Personally I think you should demand your money back and tell them to send you a return label. But they do look like you could make them work with a spacer… if that’s what you want for your brand new wheels.
Well, I definitely don’t want to use spacers, as I’ve said a few times. I could definitely get wheels that needed spacers for cheaper. So back they’ll go.
 

·
Registered
'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
Joined
·
323 Posts
You were right! Turns out they’ll still need a spacer. I contacted their support and they’re surprised because apparently they were capable of fitting their 560SL with no issues. They said that it seems like Mercedes may have used multiple types of brake calipers through the 560SL model years. Is this true?

I didn’t bring my measurement caliper, but you can see the fronts definitely won’t fit.
View attachment 2714913 View attachment 2714912



That’s a pretty cool setup. I’m starting to think I may not need to cut out the transmission tunnel much, if at all though. The T56 is massive in girth. That and the 380SL is actually apparently ~8 inches shorter in length than the 560SL. I had to check multiple sources because I thought that was a typo, but multiple places corroborated it.


.
Honestly it seems most aftermarket companies don't understand the difference in gen1 pre 86 and gen 2 cars. So they all think everything fits all of them. There are no 560sl calipers that will be more than a few milimeters difference from one to the other that I'm aware of.

As far as a 380sl being 8" different that is nonsense. It's the exact same body other than the radiator mount. Exhaust hump may be slightly different in the passenger floor. Some will claim the bumpers protrude more on a gen 1 us car than a gen 2 but no way it's 4" on each end. Regardless the wheelbase is the same on every r107 sl save for a few mm claimed from the suspension changes for gen 2. I have both a 380 and 560 sitting directly in front of each other 30 ft from me. Fenders and doors are the same except door handle pocket on gen 2 and so is the tiny area between the door edge and fenderwell. Don't believe a lot of what you read. I've read tons of stuff that I thought was fact untill I had 30 Mercedes sitting around to disprove it.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
 

·
Premium Member
1986 560SL with M120 V12 Engine, 1988 560SL Stock
Joined
·
13,038 Posts
Well, I definitely don’t want to use spacers, as I’ve said a few times. I could definitely get wheels that needed spacers for cheaper. So back they’ll go.
Sad. I guess not a hope in hell of getting them on my SL600 big breaks. I thought at 17" this would have been a go.
 

·
Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
Joined
·
24,300 Posts
Sad. I guess not a hope in hell of getting them on my SL600 big breaks. I thought at 17" this would have been a go.
A high offset version with spacers is what I’d recommend seeking. 15 mm spacers are enough for most wheels because they have some “stalk” already on the back side. Add a little more with some spacers, and you can clear the calipers… the design of these wheels does include SOME stalk, but it’s not that big. I think that they will require about 17-20mm or greater spacer to work with a 560sl, but someone with the wheels and a 560sl would need to do the testing. It can be done pretty easily with two long lug bolts and two stacks of washers. Keep adding washers until the wheel spins freely without hitting the caliper and sits flush on the mounting surface. Then measure the stack of washers for their thickness. For most BBS RS, it’s only 13mm that’s required. Three piece wheels like BBS RS are nice because not only do they have the rs133 made for a 560sl, but you can also buy the “step up” lips and barrels to go from 16” to 17” (or even 18” if you want).

If spacers are done right, there’s no problem with them. In fact, the BBS RS133 have a 10mm bolt-on spacer that goes into a 75mm bore. Since 560sl have the smaller grease hub, they are easier to get spacers to work. The easiest is bolt-on spacers and long (quality) lug bolts. @rwd4evr has done some pretty hard drifting with spacers and I’ve yet to hear any story of lug bolts breaking or stripping out threads even though most of the spacers and lug bolts I’ve bought and he’s borrowed have been the absolute cheapest ones I could find on eBay, sometimes only $20-30 for a pair of 15, 20, 25 mm spacers with lug bolts. I’ve got a toolbox drawer jammed full of them in my garage because I bought just about every variation when I’ve seen those deals.

If you like the 5-spoke pattern better than the BBS weave, there’s a BBS (RT?) Lorinser 16” wheel that uses the same 34 bolt pattern as the 16” BBS RS making them quite versatile too. You can build them into a high-offset and then add spacers to get to the right offset.

This is just an example…

 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #236 ·
Honestly it seems most aftermarket companies don't understand the difference in gen1 pre 86 and gen 2 cars. So they all think everything fits all of them. There are no 560sl calipers that will be more than a few milimeters difference from one to the other that I'm aware of.

As far as a 380sl being 8" different that is nonsense. It's the exact same body other than the radiator mount. Exhaust hump may be slightly different in the passenger floor. Some will claim the bumpers protrude more on a gen 1 us car than a gen 2 but no way it's 4" on each end. Regardless the wheelbase is the same on every r107 sl save for a few mm claimed from the suspension changes for gen 2. I have both a 380 and 560 sitting directly in front of each other 30 ft from me. Fenders and doors are the same except door handle pocket on gen 2 and so is the tiny area between the door edge and fenderwell. Don't believe a lot of what you read. I've read tons of stuff that I thought was fact untill I had 30 Mercedes sitting around to disprove it.

Sent from my SM-A115A using Tapatalk
I have no idea why every website is claiming the 560SL and 380SL have different lengths. I truly believed it, until firing up photoshop with 380SL and 560SL side profile images. I made each one 50% opacity and scaled them to have matching doors. Sure enough, they're exactly the same length! Wtf.

For the wheels, they were about 10-15 mm off in brake clearance. But I honestly don't prefer them if they're $1080, AND need spacers. I might as well buy a good BBS clone if I'm going to intend for spacers to be on there.

Here's the caliper dimensions:
Tire Wheel Automotive tire Vehicle brake Tread
Tire Automotive tire Tread Synthetic rubber Bumper


And here's the wheels:
Crankset Automotive tire Black Motor vehicle Hood
Light Automotive tire Automotive design Rim Alloy wheel



And sorry, anyone, for not providing updates for a while. A bunch of stuff happening all at once. I sold the SL55 and got a pristine S55 AMG for my ass-hauling.
Wheel Tire Car Vehicle Grille


My dad was also on his vacation this time, and right before he left we discovered the cylinder heads are going to need some machining. An exhaust bolt is truly stuck (and seized inside) and a coolant port is weak to where it could begin leaking into the combustion chamber. We need to get that sorted out next, but we'll be resuming work soon.
 

·
Outstanding Contributor, Vintage Moderator
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro 300sel5spd R+C107galore
Joined
·
24,300 Posts
Some of the best 560sl caliper measurements I’ve seen in the ~11 years is been obsessing over r107 and their wheels. Nice work!


The only thing that could have been better is with respect to the wheel measurements, where a straight edge laying over the mounting surface would have made it easier to read that last measurement. Sometimes you can do all the measuring in the world and not know until you try (which is why I suggest the washer method to find the thickness of spacer your really need). But if those wheels are already low offset, then spacers would make them so low that the scrub radius would be off and the handling might be off, maybe even tire rubbing.

Nice sedan you got there!
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #238 ·
Some of the best 560sl caliper measurements I’ve seen in the ~11 years is been obsessing over r107 and their wheels. Nice work!


The only thing that could have been better is with respect to the wheel measurements, where a straight edge laying over the mounting surface would have made it easier to read that last measurement. Sometimes you can do all the measuring in the world and not know until you try (which is why I suggest the washer method to find the thickness of spacer your really need). But if those wheels are already low offset, then spacers would make them so low that the scrub radius would be off and the handling might be off, maybe even tire rubbing.

Nice sedan you got there!
Thanks. The exact measurements for the calipers were done without a camera in my hand. I upgraded to the newest iphone and it kept trying to take a poorly lit wide angle photo since I was putting the camera right up against the caliper. On my notepad, I wrote "At 2.3" from the edge of the hub, the wheel needs 1.7" height". The wheel pictures were purely to show the wheel company "hey you guys screwed up". They promptly refunded me. :)
And that was the other thing I worried about. With a very low offset (11), but still not enough caliper clearance, a spacer may stick them outside of the wheel well.

I'm gonna head on to sleep now. I need to get that car state inspected. Gonna surprise my dad at his job lol
 

·
Registered
1986 560SL LS swap project, 1981 300D (non-turbo), 2005 S55 AMG, and an old Lexus SUV
Joined
·
81 Posts
Discussion Starter · #239 ·
Small update. It’s looking like I’ll be buying a set of used “706” cylinder heads for the engine this weekend. They’re local and cheap enough. They’ll up the compression ratio of the engine to about 10.4-10.8 to 1. The other thing is it’ll put down roughly 500 horsepower at its peak on this engine. I think this is the equivalent of “scope creep” but for engine building.
 

·
Premium Member
1986 560SL with M120 V12 Engine, 1988 560SL Stock
Joined
·
13,038 Posts
Small update. It’s looking like I’ll be buying a set of used “706” cylinder heads for the engine this weekend. They’re local and cheap enough. They’ll up the compression ratio of the engine to about 10.4-10.8 to 1. The other thing is it’ll put down roughly 500 horsepower at its peak on this engine. I think this is the equivalent of “scope creep” but for engine building.
"Scope creep" You must have worked for Sikorsky Helicopter at one time.
 
221 - 240 of 290 Posts
Top