[musides]

I've looked through the past year of posts on R12 and got the impression that this is DIY possible through ebay. My W123 Haynes manual says you shouldn't do anything with the AC system. The usually wonderful Dieselbenz wiki had a pretty limited article on the subject.

I called my repair guy. He said that the total cost would be $325 ($100 for evacuation; $75/lb of R12 @ 3 total pounds needed). On ebay, the going price seems to be about $20/12 ounces. If you in fact need 3 pounds, that means you need 4 12 oz cans, which is about $80.

I'm wondering what I should do. It seems the best option would be to buy the stuff on ebay, ask my repair guy to only charge $100 to evacuate, and put in the 4 cans for me. At $180, that sure beats $325.... not sure if my guy will do it though.

Advice/suggestions?

 

[ducatipaso]

cheaper than the $600 it cost me to get the 190E's AC redone. keep in mind if you dont do a leak test and fix why it's empty, you're throwing money into the atmosphere.

 

[akimball442]

Even on ebay, you should not be able to purchase actual R-12 unless you have the certificate required to handle it. I think you can take an A/C class online cheap, then you should be able to get it. I got mine through work.

Everything I've read about the 'freeze-12' alternative is good. Anything is better than converting to 134.

Either way, charging an A/C is very simple. You should have it properly evacuated and leak tested. They put a vacuum on it for a period of time.. an hour or so gets it good and clean. Then it can be oil and nitrogen charged with a dye. The system can be run, and leaks can be checked with a UV light. At that point, you can probably charge it to spec yourself

You definitely want to do this before adding R-12, it's very expensive. I'd be nervous about anything as cheap as you described.

 

[cheapold280ce]

why not just repair with enviro-safe. Enviro-Safe, Inc - Environmentally Friendly Refrigerant and Automotive Fluid Products That way if system ever leaks it doesn't hurt the environment. stuff works great and even reduces head pressure.

BTW you can purchase R12 on ebay if you state it's for resale. Then just sell it to your mechanic for whatever and have him add it to the bill.

 

[ducatipaso]

i talked to my highly trusted servicer, they said that stuff will destroy your AC system over time.

 

[cheapold280ce]

i talked to my highly trusted servicer, they said that stuff will destroy your AC system over time.

How is that possible it's just inert gases butane, propane, and isobutane you keep it mixed with the same mineral oil design for system. All over the world cars have changed to hydrocarbons without any problems. On the other hand Freeze 12 has zero miscibility in mineral oil and has been known to cause compressor failures.
Alternative Refrigerant mineral oil miscibilities

 

[musides]

Great responses everyone. Okay, so it looks like I need to have my mechanic do an evacuation and leak test at a minimum. Now, he did mention a year ago that I've got a leak. My AC went on to be ice cold for the entire summer, so the leak seems minor, but I suppose I have to bite the bullet.

As to getting the cert, this is interesting. Several sites seem to have a test and manual.

akimball442: how much should R12 cost if the ebay rate of $20/12 oz is too cheap?

 

[akimball442]

How is that possible it's just inert gases butane, propane, and isobutane you keep it mixed with the same mineral oil design for system. All over the world cars have changed to hydrocarbons without any problems. On the other hand Freeze 12 has zero miscibility in mineral oil and has been known to cause compressor failures.

You're half right.

Certain other refrigerants will mix with the original (and correct for these systems) oil.

The problem becomes that different gasses require different operating pressures. R134 is the best example- it needs much more pressure to work than R-12. The added pressure puts stress on the compressor and creates leaks more quickly.

I'm not sure about the environmentally friendly stuff. While I don't support polluting as a rule, The amount of R12 used in an automobile A/C system is not going to cause a natural disaster if it escapes into the atmosphere.

Starting the engine cold on these old cars-(gas or diesel) likely dumps more pollution into the atmosphere than dumping the A/C ever would.

R-12 systems work best with R-12 refrigerant.

 

[79Mercy]

I use the enviromentally friendly stuff not because it won't damage the ozone, but because I can actually freeze my a$$ off.

I can really tell its easier on the comnpressor because when it kicks in I can't even tell, on R134 it made alot of racket when running.

 

[::matthew]

I got pushed into r134 by my indie when I first got the car...

I've had a leaky hose that required repair, but it does blow quite cold.

 

[79Mercy]

::mattew, your AC was like ice cubes when I got in it at the GTG.

 

[mrbenz7]

I use the enviromentally friendly stuff not because it won't damage the ozone, but because I can actually freeze my a$$ off.

I can really tell its easier on the comnpressor because when it kicks in I can't even tell, on R134 it made alot of racket when running.

I use it for the same reasons myself! ES-12 can get quite cold and when the compressor kicks on you will likely not even feel it. The stuff works great and before anyone gets their panties in a tightwad, I know it's illegal in a few states for commercial service, but Wisconsin is the only state restricting it and even though Arizona is one(where I live) it has been decided in the Supreme Court that this is a states rights issue.

I recommend Envirosafe ES-12 because it works! R-12 is getting harder to find in a purified form and ES-12 just solves so many problems! R134 will blow the head off the compressor if it goes above 105*F. This is why the Border Patrol uses it and why it is being investigated thoroughly in the legislature. And I get 30 MPG while the AC is running!

 

[DeliveryValve]

musides, Since you are having what I assume is a certified tech work on your a/c, you are technically not handling the R12. You could possibly purchase the R12 by having a statement that you are going to resell it to a certified individual. Then once you get the work done, have your tech sign a statement that the R12 was transfered from you to your certified tech. This should cover you. But before you do that, make sure you tech is on board.

 

[oliverb]

Yeah, $80/pound seems rather high to me at this point in time. Was once around $100 but the demand has fallen off and the price has fallen substantially. My next door neighbor owns an HVAC business and said that they can hardly give it away now. Your dealer's source must not have gotten the news. Many servicing dealers have gotten rid of their R12 machine because they have very little demand for it's use. I bought 20 lbs. just before it became illegal for a non-certified person to purchase it so, with 2 cars needing R12, I am good for some time. I thought most of the systems only needed a little over 2 lbs. but that is only from memory and I could be wrong. Any service manual should list the specs for refill.

 

[musides]

Just wanted to update this thread since summer will be approaching for the rest of the country in a month or two. I did some shopping around local mechanics and found a relative "deal" for $38/lb for R12. That seemed reasonable, so I had him do all the work. Turns out one of my AC hoses was leaking, and those aren't cheap. So, $114 for the R12 + $175 for the hose +$285 for labor. Quite expensive all things considered, but considering the need for a mechanic to do evacuation, it seemed like a necessary thing.

 

[ducatipaso]

it will pay off. if the leak is fixed, the R12 will be cold.

 

[musides]

it will pay off. if the leak is fixed, the R12 will be cold.

Yeah, when it was last working the R12 is *very* cold. I never put it close to full on, partly to conserve, partly because it is so cold! My mechanic was saying that if I have a really tight system, 3 lbs of R12 could last for a few years. I'm thinking 3 years would be great.