[MBGraham]

I had no trouble disconnecting the sensor. But it looks like sensor passes through the water pump casting and would come off with the old pump? Lot of crud in there, so could be wrong.
From what I can see, just the clip holding it in place.
Will have a better look in a.m.

 

[Deplore]

But it looks like sensor passes through the water pump casting and would come off with the old pump?

Looks like it, but no. No need to remove.

Follow Witek's advice on the cardboard layout for the bolts, WP has like 20 billion bolts and they're all different lengths.

If you screw in long bolt into a hole where it calls for short bolt, you'll have a bad day.

 

[Witek_M]

Just in case things get mixed up here is bolt plan.

 

[MBGraham]

Follow Witek's advice on the cardboard layout for the bolts, WP has like 20 billion bolts and they're all different lengths.

If you screw in long bolt into a hole where it calls for short bolt, you'll have a bad day.

Years ago, when I worked on our marine diesels, I learned to store removed parts carefully! This so they would go back where they came from (bolts, nuts, valves, push rods etc). Made a template with hole pattern out of lid of old shoe box and kept the bigger stuff in the shoe box.

However, I do appreciate the reminders from both you and Witek! So many different bolts on this pump!

 

[MBGraham]

Did the hard part (for me) today. First jacked the car up. Had to do it one side at a time because the front centre pad is missing. Could have used a block of wood, I guess. Then struggled with removing the underpans. Heads of screws rusty and a couple rounded. You would think there would be a way to drain coolant without having to remove 10 or 12 screws and the pans? Getting too old for this under-car work Should have bought a lift years ago.

Next removed the upper/lower rad hoses and the one to the aux pump. They have probably been on there for 25 years and didn't really want to come off . Had to cut just one - the upper at the t-stat. The one that might be a problem, is the short piece from the oil cooler. It will likely have to be cut to get pump off. I haven't yet been able to locate a replacement. It is just a short straight piece (part 1122030382). I have some 5/8" heater hose that might work but it is slightly undersize and has thicker wall, making it harder to get on. I will check with dealer tomorrow to see if they have one.

Next job will be to swap pumps. I have the bolt layout printed and will keep it handy in case I screw up

 

[Teutone]

Graf may have been OE on some cars. Others have said Laso was. Several other also claim to be OE for Mercedes. I am sure OE suppliers change over time. The aftermarket Graf pumps I have seen pictures of don't look that great. The impellers are fabricated from sheet metal rather than cast.




It's actually MB Canada that is the problem with their high list price. My parts guy quoted me less than 1/2 the list price. Dealership only 12% off.


I could probably do that. But it's about a 2 hour round trip. Border crossing has probably got easier now Covid restrictions have eased. But problem with Remans, is the core that has to be returned. Overall probably too much trouble. But I have done it in past to save $$$ on shipping large items.

I have 65k miles on a Graf water pump, another car has a Laso. Both have been reliable.
On cheaper brands the plastic (instead of metal) impeller is said to go first.

 

[MBGraham]

I have 65k miles on a Graf water pump, another car has a Laso. Both have been reliable.
On cheaper brands the plastic (instead of metal) impeller is said to go first.

The german made Geba pump I bought looks good. Solid cast iron impeller. Aluminum casting looks good. There were also good reviews.
On my 107, I installed a Laso. Harder to find, but in all respects identical to original. May have been OEM.

 

[Teutone]

The german made Geba pump I bought looks good. Solid cast iron impeller. Aluminum casting looks good. There were also good reviews.
On my 107, I installed a Laso. Harder to find, but in all respects identical to original. May have been OEM.

I grew up with those brands in Germany. Alas, they all outsource manufacturing, so it's more a question of production / quality control. An acquaintance ordered Lemforder strut towers and motor mounts. He received all 4, 1 of each was made in Germany (probably NOS), the others in China, and there were slight differences.
Btw, Lemforder belongs to Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen = ZF (the gear box, differential etc folks).

 

[wlb50]

I grew up with those brands in Germany. Alas, they all outsource manufacturing, so it's more a question of production / quality control. An acquaintance ordered Lemforder strut towers and motor mounts. He received all 4, 1 of each was made in Germany (probably NOS), the others in China, and there were slight differences.
Btw, Lemforder belongs to Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen = ZF (the gear box, differential etc folks).

Sime Lemforder strut towers is OEM for the R129 I tried ordering the strut towers last year and coudn't even find them. I ended up getting a secondary brand - all I could get. These times are crazy with the supply chains. You are right about the outsourcing. There are a lot of complaints in the R129 group about the Bosch distributor caps now made overseas.

 

[mrboca]

I grew up with those brands in Germany. Alas, they all outsource manufacturing, so it's more a question of production / quality control. An acquaintance ordered Lemforder strut towers and motor mounts. He received all 4, 1 of each was made in Germany (probably NOS), the others in China, and there were slight differences.
Btw, Lemforder belongs to Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen = ZF (the gear box, differential etc folks).

I read somewhere that "Made in Germany" does not mean much due to laxed EU rules. It may be designed in Germany, or packaged in Germany, but the product may be manufactured in a different country under licence, for them. Given the specified materials are used, China can manufacture very high quality products, as long as there is strict quality control, as you mentioned.

 

[MBGraham]

Sime Lemforder strut towers is OEM for the R129 I tried ordering the strut towers last year and coudn't even find them. I ended up getting a secondary brand - all I could get. These times are crazy with the supply chains. You are right about the outsourcing. There are a lot of complaints in the R129 group about the Bosch distributor caps now made overseas.

I bought a Lemfoerder idler arm from FCP. It was like this one. After installation, I found the steering worse than ever. I removed it and bought the OE Mercedes parts. In comparing the two, there was a significant difference in the measurements and this was the cause of the binding. Luckily FCP accepted the return. I explained the problem, and perhaps that is why they now no longer carry that brand for that item.

What I did notice was that the box said Made in China and it was branded as Lemfoerder Aftermarket. Many parts are like this, not often identified, so no way of knowing what is good and what is not.

 

[SocalSam]

Just got a box from FCP today. Mahle fan clutch is Made in China. Lemfoerder motor mounts Made in China. Lemfoerder transmission mount Made in India. Sigh. I was also disappointed in FCP packaging. They literally threw my parts into a box without padding and shipped them. That included transmission and brake fluids which somehow did not leak.

 

[Witek_M]

You gents are derailing this thread. Let's stick with the program.

 

[Deplore]

Yeah! Let's see how far can we take a thread about changing a water pump! I got $5 on breaking the 100 post barrier!

 

[SocalSam]

Yeah! Let's see how far can we take a thread about changing a water pump! I got $5 on breaking the 100 post barrier!

I'm pulling for the OP to finish but I agree. At some point, he has to finish what he started. I found the OP's comment about Made in China more interesting than the pump job itself.

 

[MBGraham]

Yeah! Let's see how far can we take a thread about changing a water pump! I got $5 on breaking the 100 post barrier!

Quite likely

Being retired and having spare cars, I am in no hurry. And, working at sub zero temperatures also slows things down! Hold up as always, has been getting parts.

The rad hoses and the pump came in earlier than expected, so I now have everything I need except for the short oil cooler hose. I also couldn't get a replacement for the hose from the reservoir to rad, except for about $60 from dealer. But that can be replaced any time.

To get larger audience, I started a new thread for that short hose, but I guess not many W210s had the oil cooler, so no responses. Looks like I could try and re-use the old hose, if I can get it off. (But don't want to remove oil cooler and disturb it's fairly new seals to do that). The 5/8" heater hose that I have, will perhaps work if I soften it up a bit first. Don't want that hose to leak because it can't be replaced off without first removing either cooler or pump.

Anyway, jobs for today are to replace the oil port seal and remove the old water pump.

 

[MBGraham]

Argh - Murphy came to call.
I first removed the M8 bolts, no problem. Then switched to M6. Using very short stubby ratchet, first couple came out OK. Then the one with the X below broke off just below the head. Hopefully can remove once pump is off.

There are 6 more and they are tight and likely to also break.

So far I have tried mini butane torch - No change. I have also applied release-it but doubtful it will reach threads given the flanged head bolts and threaded end well inside the casting.

So maybe more heat?

 

[Witek_M]

Problem with heat is that timing cover is sealed to engine block with super thin layer of sealant. You don't want to burn it out.

 

[MBGraham]

Problem with heat is that timing cover is sealed to engine block with super thin layer of sealant. You don't want to burn it out.

Thanks for the tip!
So far, I have only heated the bolt heads with small butane torch. I have a larger propane torch. Perhaps that will be OK, so long as I keep the heat just on the bolts?
I will try tapping the heads with hammer first and see if that helps. Otherwise what can I do?

• Break the bolts? Not a good choice
• Drill the heads off so I can get the pump off, then address the stuck bolts when I can get penetrating oil to the threads?

These are presumably aluminum bolts. I recall when I replaced the breather covers that MB had switched from aluminum to stainless for those. Seems like an idea! These M6 bolts are not good, at least when not removed for 25 years.

 

[MBGraham]

One guys solution. Hope I don't have to go there!