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W140 S600L 98
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Fellow members, i am in dire need of help!

Here is a puzzle for you, the car (95 w140 s600l/600sel its with the older m120 engine) is experiencing the following symptoms, the engine sort of gets (for a lack of better word) clogged/flooded, loss of power, it smells very strong of gasoline if you stand behind the car, not all cylinders are firing. The issue does not appear all of a sudden but sort of gradually within an hour of driving power is getting less and less, and when driving the fuel consumption gauge is constantly at max. It does not look like it burns oil or not much at least, and when the issue appears and the engine is revved for some time it sort of cleans itself (or maybe it passes on its own) with white/bluish smoke and runs fine until the next episode after a couple of months depending on driving.


When the car is started cold there is no smoke, and also when the engine is not "clogged" there is again no smoke and runs very nice.

This happened on one of the longer trips and has been re-occurring ever since with shorter intervals.

Some background on what was done on the car - new spark plugs, new distributor caps, new oxygen sensors, the dreaded harness for MAF sensors was rebuilt up to the computer box, harness for injectors was purchased new and original.

A compression test of the engine was performed and showed good compression on all cylinders, also when performing star diagnosis normal live readings from engine were found and no apparent error, however when we did the diagnosis the car was ok (its hard to get it to the shop in that condition for a diagnosis now).

Self troubleshooting was performed while the problem was present on the spark plug cables and an interesting thing was found, when we unplug cables from passenger side engine is sensibly affected, however when we do it from driver side its hard to tell if engine is affected at all, that turned our attention to the left coil, we had a spare new cable for the coil and we tried it but it did not show any improvement, we will try with a new coil (then again a failed coil will probably be failed permanently and not intermittently for the car to run ok for a while) and will also try with different ignition module (the square module that cables connect to on top of each fender). Throttle bodies have not been inspected but are humming as supposed to.

It sounds maybe like the spark is not strong enough for the fuel to get burnt or that fuel management is not ok.

Have not inspected the catalytic converters yet as i dont really understand how to inspect them and if they can cause such havoc.

So many things have been addressed on this car, can someone shed some light or come with wit a brilliant logical idea as to what might be the problem its so frustrating to see my well preserved baby struggle like this! I fear to think if its something inside the engine yet i am hopeful since the symptoms are not constant (indicative of a ware of inside components) and are coming and going.

Fellow V12 owners and mechanics and members, can we solve this?
 

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1994 S600 Coupe, 1995 S600 Coupe
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You say the MAF wiring was replaced "up to" the computer box. If it wasn't replaced all the way to the connector, it still could have defective insulation and shorts.
You don't mention changing the temperature sensors for the fuel injection. They could be bad and cause over fueling, especially as it gets worse as the engine gets warmer.

You really need to get it back on Star Diagnosis with real time monitoring. Also check out Victor's YouTube videos (vsandvs), as he has a couple on the M120 and overfueling.

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W140 S600L 98
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29 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
have been following his vids like a fanatic and even communicated with him. I know that particular video where the mafs were bad under the computer, we decided to do them up to the computer box as the disassembling is very tricky and did not want to touch it. Also in most normal cases maf wires under the box are ok because far away from heat. I guess i will need to hook it up whili in that degraded state to see the readings, since last time all readings were perfect.
 

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93 SL500, 95 SL320, 96 S320, 98 S500, 2002 E320 4Matic Wagon & A little 91 5.0 FORD Mustang
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If your MAF wiring, other wiring is good, and you cleaned the caps and rotors with a Dremil Moto tool. Still no go..

The Two-Multi-Wire temperature sensors, yet you lost one, and not both. Change them both. They are on the thermostat pipe. The single wire one is not it.. They are cheap..

Here is what happened to me just 20 or so days ago

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/2813538-no-start-1995-s600-112k-miles.html

Martin
 

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1992 600SEL
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Hi, I am KnigolubS600L's friend and I also have 600SEL. Together we were trying to localize the problem by mounting working parts from my car on his car.

We already checked the left coil, the left cable between the distributor cap and the coil, the left ignition module.

As soon as we can we'll try the "Two-Multi-Wire temperature sensors". I have two spare ones. Old, but 100% working.

I believe that you are talking about B11/10 and B11/9


BTW, here is how it looks his left distributor cap and rotor.
Is the space between the rotor and the cap's pins too much?
https://imgur.com/gallery/54imj/comment/1038194781
 

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BTW, here is how it looks his left distributor cap and rotor.
Is the space between the rotor and the cap's pins too much?
https://imgur.com/gallery/54imj/comment/1038194781
This does NOT look right.
I am sure you know it, but there are two styles caps and rotors.
They are NOT interchangeable, in spite of all the cross-referencing.

DISTRIBUTOR CAP. IGNITION SYSTEM made by Mercedes Benz. #1201580002
DISTRIBUTOR CAP.
Part Number: 1201580002 ; 1041580102


DISTRIBUTOR. IGNITION SYSTEM made by Mercedes Benz. #1041580231
DISTRIBUTOR ROTOR.
Part Number: 1041580231 ; 1041580131


DISTRIBUTOR. IGNITION SYSTEM made by Mercedes Benz. #1201580031
DISTRIBUTOR ROTOR.
Part Number: 1201580031

I may have pictures somewhere in my threads, let me see if I can find them.

Good luck,
Steve
 

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I may have pictures somewhere in my threads, let me see if I can find them.
I could not find any good pictures in my old posts, so I am attaching new ones.

One of them shows the rotor you're trying to fit. It is an aftermarket replacement and may NOT fit the cap you have.
The style #1 cap should have a solid brass center electrode, as in the picture.

I am also showing in the 3rd picture the OE rotor. Style #2. Notice the difference with style #1. This rotor is to be used with a cap that has a graphite (spring loaded IIRC) center electrode.

Before you mess with coolant temperature sensors and/or fuel pressure regulators, please verify that you have the correct cap/rotor.
If you find that they are mismatched, replace BOTH cap/rotor on BOTH banks.
New ignition coils too.
HT leads and spark plugs probably should also be checked/renewed if the engine has been running for "some time"

No history of this car was provided by the OP (new purchase?). Mileage?

Good luck sorting it out.
Steve

PS If it were my car, given the symptoms, I would also look into the fuel pump(s) and filter.
 

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1992 600SEL
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Glad you mentioned it - KnigolubS600L's distributor cap has a graphite (spring loaded IIRC) center electrode, but I forgot to take picture of it without the distributor on it.....
It's not like the cap from the picture.

But I still find that space between the distributor and the cap's pins too big.....
 

· W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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Check the catalytic converters by tapping them with a hammer , if you don't hear a sort of Hollow sound ,they are clogged , either one or both .
My guess is that one or booth of your cats are partially clogged up , the loss of power usually happens as they heat up to temperature .:thumbnsup:

B11/9 sensor from the diagram on page 1...



Off topic: I don't see how to edit posts. There is no such option?
You will receive that option soon , you don't have enough Posts yet for that to be activated .:thumbsup:
 

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1992 600SEL
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My account is very old but, I didn't know about the post counter, thanks.

Now to the problem - could a clogged catalytic converters affect only the one side of the engine? I think they can't.

As KnigolubS600L said in the main post - "Self troubleshooting was performed while the problem was present on the spark plug cables and an interesting thing was found, when we unplug cables from passenger side engine is sensibly affected, however when we do it on driver side its hard to tell if engine is affected at all".

So, the car now runs bad - no power with strong gasoline smell from the exhaust. When we disconnect random spark plug cable on the passenger's side the car becomes worse.

But when we disconnect random spark plug cable on the driver's side it barely affects the car. You can hardly see the difference. Does that mean that the problem is on the driver's side of the engine?
A clogged clogged catalytic converters would affect the whole engine. Do I think right?


Another question - Can a MAF sensor sometimes work well, but sometimes not?
 

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The V12 engine is two I6's with a common crankshaft. There are two LH-ECUs in the coffin box and two EZL's -- one for each bank.
It sure can run on bank only, albeit the performance will NOT be there.

Also, if you crawl under the car, you'll see two downpipes and two catalytic converters. It is VERY possible that if one bank was running poorly for whatever reason (btw, did you check the cap and rotor on the good side and compare with the bad one?), this side of the exhaust is clogged now due to a catalytic converter meltdown.

Recall that asked about the history of the car and have gotten no response yet. How long has it been doing this?

Steve

PS Yes, MAF can do that and supposedly, if a bad MAF is your only problem, you disconnect the plug from the sensor while the engine is idling, it will smooth out....check mighty_m120 thread that was running just a few days ago...
 

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Thanks for the reply.

Well, about the history of the car only KnigolubS600L could tell. I know that the problem occurs from almost the beginning of his ownership (1-1.5 years), but he should tell more....

We didn't try disconnecting the left MAF plug.....

We didn't check the cap and rotor on the working side. But I am almost sure that cap and rotor can't be the reason for that problem, which is not constant. They would have been a suspect if the problem was constant.

I am almost sure that his catalytic converters are still there and were not replaced (like mine) with two small center mufflers. We will perform that check with the hammer. It would be perfect if there is the problem, because in our country we can still drive without catalytic converters, because on the MOT no one cares if you have them or not....
 

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We didn't check the cap and rotor on the working side. But I am almost sure that cap and rotor can't be the reason for that problem, which is not constant. They would have been a suspect if the problem was constant.
I don't agree. This huge gap between the rotor and the terminal posts is a concern. This will put a HUGE strain on all ignition parts for this bank and could lead tho the demise of the coil (coils don't fail on the spot, usually it starts with random misfire until the failure becomes obvious). On a normal car with with coil, it will be easy to diagnose, but if one of the 12 cyl is not firing properly, only an expert can tell....

Please do check. I think that rotor looks absolutely wrong.

I am almost sure that his catalytic converters are still there and were not replaced (like mine) with two small center mufflers. We will perform that check with the hammer.
Tapping with a hammer may not tell much if there's too much gunk/rust on the outside. Run the engine for a few minutes, try to rev it a few times and shut down. Wait a little bit and feel with your hand (be extra careful!) the temperature of the cats (they should be equally hot). An IR thermometer will be much better for this, if you have one.

Steve
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Had the car since April 2014, it looks to be relatively low millage but who can say for sure it says 110 000 miles on the dash. Ran perfectly for 2 years (mainly driving it couple of times a week for short trips) and in March 2016 when i went on a longer 300+ miles trip is when the issue appeared. Ever since then it has been reoccurring with shorter and shorter intervals, i think i did like 150 miles after fixing the maf cables ran perfect and it appeared again. That's about it in terms of history i think.
 

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A warning, Mercedes specifically recommends against pulling sparkplug leads when the engine is running, as it could damage the respective ignition module. They cost a fortune, well over $1000 each.
Star diagnostics has a mode to turn off one injector at a time to test each cylinder. The whole Star setup costs less than one ruined module, and will save you a whole lot of time and expense. I paid less the $350 US for mine, plus an old Dell D630 computer which you can get for $60 or so.

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