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87 190e stalling sat for 20yrs

2K views 37 replies 7 participants last post by  slk230red 
#1 ·
I'm looking for community feedback! I recently got my 190e back on the road after it sat for over 20 years. After fresh oil, tires, plugs etc, I installed new fuel pumps and a filter. Lately I have been driving it once a week to "break it in". I noticed that the fuel gauge does not work and is stuck at half, drove to the nearest gas station just to be safe and added some fuel system cleaner before adding about 5 gallons of gas.

After driving less than a mile it stalls out. I put it in park, turn the key and it immediately starts right back up like nothings wrong. I do this multiple times before noticing that if I let the car coast/idle it does not stall but if I accelerate too fast or get the economy meter too far into the red it stalls out. I let it roll in DRIVE just barely pressing the gas and it did not stall once over a 5 mile drive.

What is your take on this? I never actually removed the fuel tank to clean it. My guess is that the fuel system cleaner knocked some varnish loose and accelerating to quickly is gumming it up and making it stall. How much would a shop charge to properly clean my fuel tank, what else should I look out for?
 
#2 ·
I think your suspicion is likely to be correct. Not sure about the cost of a fuel tank and system clean-out since it also depends on who does the work and what part of the country you're in. It will be worth it whatever it is as I don't really see your car running at full capacity without it. I store my 190 for about half of the year because of the weather and I make sure to use fuel stabilizer so the fuel doesn't turn into varnish and I have no problems.
 
#3 ·
Yeah the fact that the fuel gauge is stuck is not a good sign. That means the float is baked into place.

I would be curious to take it out and see what you have in there. You need to take it out anyway for the cleaning.
You need to undo the small keyed nut at the bottom so that you can remove the super thin aluminum cover off.
The thin sensor wires need to be cleaned very carefully with a cotton ball and carbourator cleaner or electrical contact cleaner.

But most importantly see how it looks in terms of the varnish.
 
#4 ·
Thank you guys for your input. I finally took it to a locally owned shop that specializes in classic mercs. They said that my EHA valve is leaking and needs to be replaced ($60 labor, $462 parts). They also want to replace my O2 sensor ($120 parts, $198 labor) and in addition to this drain my fuel tank ($120 labor, $44.73 parts) which I had already done in addition to adding seafoam when I did fuel pumps and filter.

I believe the leaking EHA is most likely causing the stall, car has no CEL nor codes so I doubt the 02 sensor is bad. What do you think? I'm super paranoid about being ripped off and these seem like easy DIY jobs.
 
#5 ·
Wow I forget how much shops charge for labor these days! Both of those jobs are very easy DIY.

I wouldn't replace EHA unless you actually see/smell fuel leaking. But if you do, then it's super easy replacement that can be done in 5 minutes. Remove air cleaner, undo 2 screws and it pops off. Put new "o" rings in and screw back in.
Bosch EHA is $266 on FCP euro. They're charging you MSRP on that part

02 sensor is $80 on amazon. and takes 10 min to replace (unless it's absolutely seized) Pull passenger side floor mat, then disconnect 02 sensor and shove the wire through the grommet into transmission tunnel. Jack up car, get a 22mm open ended wrench and break the 02 sensor loose. Screw new one back in, re-feed connector wire and plug in.
FYI, a bad 02 sensor won't necessarily trip the CEL. You can test it using a multimeter, the connections are under the passenger floormat. Here's some basic instructions

Regarding the bad fuel, that's something I would pay a shop to do, simply because I wouldn't want to deal w the bad gas fumes and the mess.
 
#6 ·
I would be suspicious. EHA valves almost always leak to the outside. So if you do not smell fuel (should reek of gasoline smell) than I would be very suspicious. Also these cars really expensive if you have shops do the easy work.
The EHA valve is about less than $300 (last I checked) online and super easy to replace. But again I have never had a failing EHA valve for internal leaks, external yes, twice. They always leak outside before they leak internally. And you should be able to tell that. I do not know if bad fuel can clog them up. But that is not a leak either.

If you do not have a history on the O2 sensor, it is a good idea to test it. And again, super easy for you to replace that yourself for half the price.

For your stalls, ,you need to figure out if this is an electrical issue or a mechanical one. 9 out of 10 causes are electrical, but then again your car had bad fuel. So who knows.
 
#7 ·
I had to pass on their other repair recommendations and just let them clean clean out the tank and put in a new fuel tank strainer. Would a gummed up strainer cause random stalling and delivery issues?

I will get the car back sometime next week and will update.
 
#8 ·
Mechanical Fuel delivery issues from the back (fliter, pump, etc ) will feel like a bogged down, starved engine. And the car will hesitate and choke.

An electrical issue is generally an instantaneous stall.

This has been my experience.

You'll have to decide what yours feels like before chasing down the problem.
 
#9 ·
Finally got the car back after letting them clean the tank and fix a few other things. It starts up smoothly no hesitation nor rough idle but a slight hiccup here and there.

After about 15min of driving it stalled again. It runs and drives smooth but if I go up a significant incline or the economy meter goes into red it stalls. I can intentionally trigger the stall doing this.

Mechanic also said my oil is fuel contaminated. O2 sensor?
 
#11 ·
No I havent measured fuel system or lower chamber pressure yet. I'll research how later. Do you happen to know of a guide or thread on this?

Next I will pull and clean the fuel distributor and inspect the EHA many old threads do say the CIS on these cars are prone to clogging. It will be a couple weeks but I want to track down and document the solution for others who may want to revive a 190 that sat decades.
 
#13 ·
I am ruling out the fuel system! Have not got around to changing the o2 sensor but I have the part, the original one is rounded and stuck in the exhaust :/ I've been fighting it the past few days.

When I checked for vaccum leaks I found the attached image. These clear lines have the old sludgy oil clogging them. Could this be the source of my stalling issues? Is there kit I can purchase to replace all of these. These hoses are all extremely brittle this one snapped like a spaghetti noodle. Can the car be driven this way?
Please help!
 

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#15 · (Edited)
Have you checked the top and bottom ICV vacuum hoses to make sure they aren't brittle/cracked? When I remove the head on my '93, all four original vacuum hoses were hard and cracked when I removed them due to age and heat.
They should be soft and tightly connected.
Also, purchase MB brand hoses, the aftermarket one on the bottom I had split at the intake boot. It wouldn't start at a Target store, so I taped it up to get me home.
 
#16 ·
Thanks for your input! Was your car stalling and that made you think to check these hoses? What was the result after you replaced them?

I looked it at them today they are extremely brittle and couple are cracked at the clips. I cleaned the oil out of the thin clear ones that I could reach then drove it for about 30min it did not stall until I parked to get gas. Started up and drove it home with no stalling. Before it would stall at least 3 times in the same amount of driving time.

My valve cover gasket leaks badly and I think oil is getting into the hoses some kind of way. I'll change the gasket on my next off day. I also found hoses on autohaus for pretty cheap. I just don't know the sizes are needed.
 
#17 · (Edited)
I caught my brittle vacuum hoses before I had any stalling problems. When I replaced the head gasket, I replaced any or all vacuum hoses that were brittle. Over the years, there have been many stalling and no start problems related to the ICV vacuum hoses.
Is yours a 2.3 4 cyl. ? What year?

You should be able to purchase a set of the 4 ICV vacuum hoses for your car. Pay attention to the lower hose that connects to the bottom of the intake boot, it has a male/male nipple that connects the hose to the intake boot.

Also, if you are going to replace the valve cover gasket, read this thread about a stalling problem that was caused by a blocked breather in the valve cover.

Good luck.
 
#18 ·
That is a good read, so that members engine was spared this ordeal as I have heard if the crankcase pressure builds up super high it can damage an engine. So the stalling was a very good thing for the engine to spare it.

But certainly, if there is extreme oil leaks from the valve cover that could be a bad sign.

It is always good practice to check things out when one removes the air filter housing for a couple of things:

(1) Run the engine and make sure air is coming thru that outlet.
(2) the rubber hose that connects to it should be bone dry (no oil). Oil could mean excessive blow-by gasses.

Thanks for that link SLK230red!
 
#19 ·
I have an 1987 2.6 that sat in a garage for 20years. So i think I'll need to replace as much rubber as possible. As a whole it drives and runs well that Sudden Stall Syndrome thread is exactly what I'm experiencing. Much appreciated!

Where did you order your hoses from?

Also, the oil pressure guage is on 3 at all times is that a sign of excessive pressure?

I thank you both because the car had oil sludge in it, I used marvel mystery oil to clean it out so it makes sense that the gunk is clogging my hoses and at times the motor cannot breathe.

I think a new valve cover gasket, the SSS fix and new hoses will solve the stalling issue.

I'll let you know what happens.
 
#20 ·
I bought my hoses from my indy parts guy. My '93 2.3 had 4 hoses, 1 on the bottom of the ICV and 3 on top of the ICV going to the front of the air cleaner.

I think your '87 2.6 has 3 total:

1030941982 Valve cover to Air Filter Housing.
1030940482 ICV to the intake manifold.
1030941382 ICV to airflow meter.

See different manufacturer brands and prices here:

Also, make sure the vacuum hose going to the EZL is in good shape and has good connections at both ends.

2632375
 
#22 · (Edited)
We do not know how many miles on the engine but if it was sitting in a garage(maybe) for 20 yrs, it is basically a 13 year young car electrically. I should think that the electrical components would be the last things to worry about.

The contact points maybe, and on the OVP, I would just check the date code on the side. If it says ..87, sure it is the original and could be suspect but if it has been replaced already it is most likely OK.

How many miles on the car?
 
#24 · (Edited)
Was it exposed to the elements or was it garaged?
It sounds like it was exposed.

That is a little over the mileage when my original OVP gave up. So check the date code on it for good measure.
Stalls due to OVP are not common and before a stall the car idle will surge before the stall.

I suspect you will have to buy an electronic contact cleaner and go over all the contacts and fuses.
May want to just replace all the fuses and clean the contact points in the process.

But if the car was sitting for 20 years the fuel system needs to be completely cleaned out, filters changed etc.
There are 3 filters - at the bottom the gas tank, the main fuel filter after the pump(s) and the small one right before the fuel distributor.
 
#26 ·
I already had the tank cleaned out, and have run seafoam through it. I doubt it is a fuel related stall. Fuel filters and fuel pumps are brand new. I also have an extra EHA with new gaskets but have not installed it yet and I have a new o2 sensor but the old one is heavily seized and rounded smh.

My stall is as if the engine just shuts off and the car begins to coast until I stop it. Then I can turn the key and it starts up everytime with no issue. No weird noises, no hard start, choke, stumble or anything. Mechanics can’t figure it out and my budget is only good for parts at the moment.

It was in the garage until I took it out last summer, I store in the garage for winter and cover it outdoors in warmer months.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Those facts help a lot in the diagnosis. If it just shuts off coasting and then re-starts like nothing happened, OVP would be the top suspect.
If you are in a tight budget, take it out and read out the date code, or just take a picture of the sides and post it here. It will cost you nothing and may inform us how old that OVP is.

In a automatic transmission, you will not feel the surge much, one will with a manual transmission. You might have the surge but can not feel it because maybe the OVP cutting out and coming back on is instantaneous. BTW, ironically the OVP cutting out is not the problem, it is coming back on that shocks the system for the stall. Bosch Engineers did not account for this failure mode.

OVP is one of the rare items that is date coded (along with flex beake hoses, etc that are wear items).
 
#30 · (Edited)
On the EZL matters, that is an expensive part and difficult to find. Best to sort everything else first with the Fuel.
Reasonable approach on the EZL is to purchase one on Ebay/JY AFTER everything else is sorted out and the car is running well.
As you will be just getting someone elses old part with no history. You need to be able to swap it and and make sure it works, otherwise return it.

I'm in the same spot, on my original and looking for an EZL I can swap in and check out. That is the only electronic spare I do not have at the moment.

The EZL is mounted on the wheel-well, drivers side for LHD, next to the ABS unit and X11 diagnostic port.. You will need to read the part number on it.
 
#29 · (Edited)
Have you ever checked the micro fuel filter screen on the supply side of fuel distributor? If it sat that long, bet it’s halfway blocked with rust. Last defense of the run.

Remove supply line, then spin out filter to inspect. Try blowing through it, should flow air relatively easy.

Other than that, I’d suspect the ignition coil secondary side is failing.

2633087


2633088
 
#31 ·
Have not checked this fuel filter, no clue it even existed!! Thanks.

I got the car back from my mechanic, he could not figure out why it’s stalling it didn’t stall when he drove it so he pretty much gave it back and said good luck.

I did replace about 5 fuses, couldn’t do all because autozone only sells a variety pack and didn’t have enough white fuses. But during my drive home about 5 miles, no stall! I’m confused
 
#33 ·
Not at this point in time to sort your problem(s), as I was saying in the post. Do that after everything is sorted out. A car that sat for 20 years is not going to have an EZL problem, or better said an EZL is probably the last part to replace on your car. More likely to have fuel and electrical connector/fuse corrosion type issues.
 
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