Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

61 - 75 of 75 Posts

·
Registered
600 coupe, one of the very first built
Joined
·
131 Posts
Question - can the nylon guides be replaced with the chain in? Dropping the timing altogether at the moment is not really an option I want to explore :/
I hate to say it, but NO. Timing chain has to be off AND the lower portion of the front cover must come off.
Not fun, especially with the engine in the car.

Also, do NOT buy individual gaskets. Not cost effective. Instead, go for the set:

Left, 1200101220


and Right, 1200101320


All you need for the job, minus the sealants (there are reports that Permatex 2 or Loctite 517 will be fine, but I paid MB dearly for the specified sealants since I did not want oil on the garage floor)

I realize the AutohausAZ may not be an option for you down under, but the ElringKlinger sets you should be able to source with the pn's I gave you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #62
Thanks for the offer deplore but for the time being I have a meeting scheduled with a local mb parts department who I’ve managed to get on board the project. He mentioned at the least he could print me out p/n.

time capsule I thought I was onto something with those part numbers you supplied!! Found an elring kit for both left and right for a run out price of $80aud each and in Sydney but just as soon as I placed the order I was told that the part of the warehouse where all the old stock is kept had caught fire recently and would need to check stock. 🔥
The few others I have seen on eBay are not cost effective postage wise at all. Fingers crossed Mercedes come through with the goods.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #63
UPDATE
Ok so my brother swung by last night and we pulled the passengers rocker cover, timing cover, and stripped old gaskets. I think he is invested just as much in keeping this relic on the road.
Appears right hand is all intact and tight which I will confirm with a torque wrench. Chris I may need to borrow that one off you after all if I can’t find a good second hand one.
2617722
2617723
2617724
Photos taken after a thorough degrease. Next I want to remove the crankcase breather i replaced about a year ago and degrease that area too but all this is difficult in an apartment complex car park /: I’m straining strata relations as is even if some of the community is on board with the project

Also here is my utilitarian bolt sorting method
2617726


up next is checking timing and as for rotating the engine by hand, is there an easy way to do this? will i throw timing out turning backwards? (Which way is forward :/)
Thanks all for your help so far.
Cheers
Troy.
 

·
W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
Joined
·
7,599 Posts
Come get the Torque wrench anytime .
 

·
Outstanding Contributor , SDS Guru
1998 MB E300TD, 1997 MB E36 AMG, 2001 MB E55 AMG
Joined
·
3,506 Posts
Engine rotation is clockwise, use a 27mm socket on the crank pulley bolt and turn it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #66
C06DE8B4-4845-4AA0-B140-30B9AFCAB5C3.jpeg
Good evening all,
As per the image I have checked and checked again timing on the 600 and have a few questions.
At top dead centre (tdc) using a drill bit, the 4mm guide holes as shown on each camshaft don’t seem to line up. I have rotated numerous times and am certain something is off.
Is this to be taken as a rough guide only? Or is something more sinister at play.
As a side note, I have also just noticed that my harmonic balancer is deteriorating.
Photos to follow.
Thanks
Troy
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #67
Tdc
2619180

Exhaust cam left
2619181

Intake cam - left
2619182

intake cam - right
2619183

exhaust cam - right
2619184

bonus pic - deteriorating hb
2619185

2619186
 

·
Registered
600 coupe, one of the very first built
Joined
·
131 Posts
I have rotated numerous times and am certain something is off.
From your pictures, it looks like the timing is way off. Could be the chain and/or the guides. Or the dampener -- your is need of replacement/repair. In the US we have places that can rebuild them.
BTW, if I am not mistaken, the TDC on the crankshaft is not with the little finger pointing at the middle of the zero, but the line next to it. What happens if you move it there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #69
Thanks time capsule. I also suspect timing is off - perhaps it was never done correctly to begin with? It looks like someone was here before me.
I spun the motor around to make sure it was lined up a little closer (hard to do when you need to exert 200pounds of force) to tdc and the results were actually little worse
:(
2619235
 

·
Registered
600 coupe, one of the very first built
Joined
·
131 Posts
I also suspect timing is off - perhaps it was never done correctly to begin with? It looks like someone was here before me.
I commented on this already -- the color of the gasket is green -- this is NOT the original material of the gasket used in the factory. This, together with the bolts coming loose is a strong indicator someone messed with the T-chain.
The big question is WHY?

In any case, the chain tensioner has to be removed, the chain has to come off and the timing set correctly. As I wrote in my post from 15 days ago, at this point, you are looking at replacing ALL guides and possibly the chain.

Re-sealing the front of the engine is not easy. Especially with engine still in the car.
If keeping numbers-matching car is important to you, this is the only way. If not, you probably will be better off sourcing another used engine with low(er) miles.

If I am not mistaken, your friend, for his previous 600SE project was able to find a very nice M120 engine from Japan.
 

·
W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
Joined
·
7,599 Posts
Yes , that Engine had by my memory 52000 km's done . All up cost me around $8000 , this included engine / instalation & something an auto electrician had to do .
$2000 for the engine $6000 to install it . Now thinking back & how well i got to understand the M120 now over the years, i would un-instal & re-instal it my self , i did buy the engine crane at the time & still have it here .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30 Posts
Discussion Starter #72
I haven't forgotten Time capsule, and thanks for re-iterating. The big question is definitely why and i fear i will never find out. No history on the car whatsoever but i am slowly figuring it out..
Dropping the timing and starting over is something i was trying to avoid but given the cost of importing an unknown condition motor, surely it would seem logical to give it a go? matching numbers for me is here nor there; i can go down the transplant route if needed but the fact this engine was running as strong as it was in this state is a testament to the durability of this superb motor.

Is there anyone that could comment on what else i should be looking at while im there? Water pump is less than 1000ks old so thats fine. Harmonic balancer will need to be rebuilt or replaced. Timing kit will need to be sourced. Time Capsule, would it benefit to remove the aircon condenser to allow access? I admit i have very, very little experience so any info would be greatly appreciated.

Also can some one please explain this numbering business of m120.980 - m120.981 etc?

Chris can i ask how you went about sourcing a motor from Japan? yahoo auctions?

Cheers,
Troy
 

·
Registered
600 coupe, one of the very first built
Joined
·
131 Posts
Also can some one please explain this numbering business of m120.980 - m120.981 etc?
Engines with distributors are M120.980/981. Without are M120.982/983.
980 and 982 for W/C140. 981 and 983 for R129.
 

·
W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
Joined
·
7,599 Posts
Call ASV Villawood , ask for Arvo ,he's the owner . Phone # 132750
 

·
Outstanding Contributor , SDS Guru
1998 MB E300TD, 1997 MB E36 AMG, 2001 MB E55 AMG
Joined
·
3,506 Posts
If I remember my HG job correctly the camshaft sprocket on the exhaust only goes on one way.

Remove chain tensioner and move camshaft one teeth to the right and the intake cam one teeth to left so it is in time with all other sprockets. Use the wrench on the appropriate area on the camshaft. Install tensioner and then spin engine by hand few times. Check if timing in spec, and if it is, you're all set.

No need for a whole new engine.
 
61 - 75 of 75 Posts
Top