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Discussion Starter #1
Good morning and happy holidays to all except me.
As the frustrated owner of an absolutely stunning 600sel (which I am very much in love with) I feel I need to put down in words the trials and tribulations we have faced together, thus far. I welcome any discussion and advice as I have lost faith in any “mechanic” I have reasonable access to. Big thanks to Chris merc-s600 for his help and diagnosis so far.

Purchased on a whim in Sydney approx 2 years ago, I was unable to test drive for more than a few minutes between the stalling, obvious electrical gremlins, and a dramatic loss of coolant, I figured this was the perfect car for me. I transported it to a local Mercedes independent workshop to address the coolant leak so I could begin diagnostics.
While there, I was told the passenger side rotor and cap needed doing and then it would be good to go. I picked it up the following week with the expectation that it was running at “95% power”. The drive home determined that was a lie. I could barely keep up with traffic and there was an obvious miss and idle searching issue, oil pressure gauge was high at cold start, 0 once warmed up, violent shifts through the gears, accelerating at full throttle just to crawl away from traffic lights, intermittent asr light you name it. Over the next few months I got my hands on a blinker code reader and got my head around what appeared to have been done maintenance/ repair wise by previous owner and it looked something like this;
Drivers side ezl appears to be newer. Drivers side cap , rotor, coil, magnet all appear to be newer than passenger side. Upper Engine harness replaced. Updated Maf harness patched in. I removed the eta cover plates to inspect wiring- Drivers side looks new, passengers had no sign of wiring deterioration but I note it is not new like the drivers side. Module box wiring was shot, all the way across firewall and down passenger side fender. To me it appears the previous owners were chasing a running/ miss issue on the drivers side, and may have come close if not for overlooking the fact the passenger side ezl controls the drivers side bank ( I have only recently come to this knowledge after speaking with Chris this week ) I have one in transit as we speak.
Prior to this new found ezl knowledge, below is a list of work I have carried out over the 2 + years of ownership to try and get this relic back on the road; Passenger side rotor, cap, and coil. Plugs and ht leads (silicon power tech brand). Both camshaft sensors. Crankcase breather, manifold gaskets. Both fuel pumps, fuel filter. New Battery. Multiple second hand mafs and modules (egas, asr, base module etc) removed cats, and new o2 sensors. Smoke test and Assorted vacuum leaks fixed. Wiring from module box pulled and painstakingly repaired by a competent and brave (and now rich) auto electrician.
During these repairs or changes the car showed signs of brilliance and what I believed to be full power with asr not kicking in on one occasion to stop me from leaving two thick black lines on the m4 on ramp, along with rapid acceleration to the ‘speed limit’ /: It was beautiful

But all this was temporary.

Further scanning revealed a multitude of errors, ranging from throttle Postion, random misfires (all drivers side), rear brake light with some coming and going after clearing, some returning immediately. Symptoms are largely the same, down on power, jerky gear changes, drivers side bank heating up faster and hotter than passenger, reading 40-60 degrees hotter than passenger as taken at inlet manifold. Looking at this all on paper I believe I am heading in the right direction with my next actions being the passenger side ezl, brake switch(arrived this week) and setting the accelerator closed position.
I will keep this thread updated as I make changes and again welcome any input, discussion, or advice.
Thanks for your time.
Troy
 

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600SEL '93, SL600 '95, E55 '04
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Hi Troy

Reading your story reminds me of 3 cars i recently serviced. All were W140 v12s, one limo and two coupes and all 3 had serious engine performance issues that in the end turned out to be caused by catalitic converters. The best test is to pull off the o2 sensors and look for improvement. One of the 3 was 6.9 Brabus. This one needed new wiring harness and 2 ignition cables but the main issue was clogged CAT. Symptoms like yours, one side of the motor significantly cooler then the other one. Swaping control modules side to side made no improvement.


You can see the test values on SD after i removed o2 sensors. With the sensors in place this car sucked 35kg/h of air and injector timing was 9sec. Throttle valve opening angle was 5deg. Car run like this for 10 minutes then the motor shut down and could not be restarted.

Best regards
J
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks kubasz,
While I have deleted the cats, giving the o2 sensors a second look may be worth while. My initial thought was fuelling too - however o2 sensors are only approx a year old so I didn’t give them a second thought. Thanks again.
Troy.
 

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MY96 S500 & MY96 S600
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Fuel reg, clean the wheel speed sensors and he "fins" they read on the brake rotors. Check rubber intake elbows and crank case breather for leaks.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Hi Joe and thanks for you reply. Would dirty wheels speed sensors show any of the symptoms I mentioned ( low power, low and rough idle speed)? What about the rear brake light switch?
I haven’t checked the elbows since I pulled etas, so I will add this to the list.
I have also replaced the breather pipe in the past - when I first removed the intake manifold I couldn’t find the breather pipe so many people have mentioned as it had crumbled into pieces and was loosely lying on top of the block!
Thanks again.
Troy
 

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MY96 S500 & MY96 S600
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Poor wheel speed signal puts the early cars into limp mode, but does not affect idle. Cracked elbows/air leak can cause poor idle/low power (will run fine at higher throttle opening tho). IIRC rear brake switch is related to ASR limp mode, not idle.

May have multiple issues overlapping to cause your symptoms, not necessarily one thing going on.
 

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W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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Poor wheel speed signal puts the early cars into limp mode, but does not affect idle. Cracked elbows/air leak can cause poor idle/low power (will run fine at higher throttle opening tho). IIRC rear brake switch is related to ASR limp mode, not idle.

May have multiple issues overlapping to cause your symptoms, not necessarily one thing going on.
You got any idea what happen'd to my 2 spare ICM's i had in my garage Joe , they disappeared , i want them for Troy to test .
The way Troy described me his faults ,i think its one of his ICM's gone .
One Bank gets no communication from them , it also showed on my Scanner .
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks guys. I have an ICM coming early in the new year if you can’t dig them up (fingers crossed it isn’t a faulty unit) I assume I will need to reset learned air fuel values via ignition modules?

Cheers and merry Xmas.
 

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W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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No they are a straight swap over . Same Part # is crucial for ICM or the Updated once .
 

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1999 S600 Sedan, 1999 S600 w/ 4-pl seating, 1995 S600 Coupe, 2-1992 600SEL's, 2002 ML55, 1998 SL600
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Try this:

Instead of fumbling around a fairly complicated car and engine management system, get to a Mercedes dealership and negotiate their rate and parts prices, loaner policy, warranty period and introduce yourself to people who know what they’re doing with your car.

Trust me, it will cost you less money, and eliminate the frustrations shared in this thread.

You’re not dealing with a 1965 Ford Mustang. You have a very sophisticated car that is arguably the best car built in the modern era.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Try this:

Instead of fumbling around a fairly complicated car and engine management system, get to a Mercedes dealership and negotiate their rate and parts prices, loaner policy, warranty period and introduce yourself to people who know what they’re doing with your car.

Trust me, it will cost you less money, and eliminate the frustrations shared in this thread.

You’re not dealing with a 1965 Ford Mustang. You have a very sophisticated car that is arguably the best car built in the modern era.
Thanks Stryker. That was my initial plan however I soon learned I don’t have any dealers around me which are willing to help. I COULD NOT book my w140 in for a scan as “ they don’t have the ability to scan them anymore” This is one of the biggest dealers in Sydney. As for parts they said they are not serving the w140 chassis anymore - parts unavailable or far, far too expensive.
It seems I am in the wrong country for w140 service. Should have bought a shitty old mustang! (Read: wrong country for that too)
Thanks anyway and merry Xmas.
 

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1999 S600 Sedan, 1999 S600 w/ 4-pl seating, 1995 S600 Coupe, 2-1992 600SEL's, 2002 ML55, 1998 SL600
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Whoa! That seems illogical to me. Is there another dealership you can talk to?

merry Christmas to you. My present to you is that we will all think about the best solution for you to save your car.
 

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M120, M119, W126*2 + Silver Avantgarde wagon
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Stryker's thinking, in my experience, used to be the way to go. But now MB dealerships don't tend to have anyone left who is/ was trained on the W140, if they do by now he will be very experienced you may want to go there. But some just don't like the W140, and in my experience stay away from them...

May I suggest you telephone Jonathan Hodgman (Jnr.) in Atlanta... he loves W140's, even rebuilds the wiring, for as Joe and MercS600 allude to, you are very brave to have taken on an early MY V12... This is my Christmas present to you:-

https://blueridgemb.com/performance

Failing that, you want to call the owner here who had several M120's in at nearly 200,000 miles working well when I went to visit him:- https://www.mbzsilverstar.com/

Also, this may sound even more off the wall, but the mechanic's father at GR Auto Care in Houston, Texas owns and appreciates M120's and has been a Mercedes Mechanic all his life. Says a lot about his knowledge.... These guys are hard to find. So per Stryker's suggestion, Happy Christmas...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thanks guys.
I appreciate the contacts and will likely look into these options in the new year failing my method of throwing random parts in the direction of the engine bay.

truth be told, between the Aussie members I have within driving distance, and their combined knowledge, I think we will sort this one out. I guess I was just posting to see if there was anything glaringly obvious I was missing, and also more airing my grievances for the year so I can start fresh in 2020 !
Cheers
Troy
 

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1999 S600 Sedan, 1999 S600 w/ 4-pl seating, 1995 S600 Coupe, 2-1992 600SEL's, 2002 ML55, 1998 SL600
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Don’t be put off, collectively we will help you figure this out. Meanwhile, an early 140 is an amazing automobile. Once brought to right, you will enjoy it for years to come.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thank you Stryker. I have no intention of giving up- I am in too deep and that’s fine with me.
I will fit the icm, scan, record, clear, and then scan again and post my error codes as soon as I can.
We are in the dawn of an era of electric (and soulless) vehicles and to let the tale of this 600 fade to black would be to let the enemy win. I prefer death.
 

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W140 Moderator
"CHRIS" Merc 92 600SEL / Sold > 93 600SE / 93 S500 / 89 560SEL / 413CDI / B180-CDI /A170-CDI
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Unfortunately here in Sydney no MB service center will take on an M120 engine ,they call themselves Mercedes Specialist but when it comes to the V12 ,that Specialism is completely gone ,I have my self try'd them before ,one dealership didn't even know what a W140 V12 was or looked like ,i had to take the Manager outside to show him mine (dum dums) . The Staaf is to Young (generation XY) & testing Equipment at the Dealerships is to updated ,the Manager told me that they don't have the older testing scanners etc etc anymore .
The C3 & C5 scanner i bought is due because of this and is at Troys availability from me at any time ,we already scanned his car twice ,next scan is due after the ICM arived .
For me to Scan any W140 ,the cost is Zero $ .

( With the C5 Scanner i scanned Ilhan's W210 MB ,the scanner revealed many faults ,The faults showed what to do ,where the problem is & a picture of the faulty parts location in the car ,awesome & to easy)

I like the idea Stryker taking the M120 to the Dealership in AustraliaAA'A ,one guy did & when it was ready to be picked up he received an invoice for repairs done at a total of $16000 more o less ,he left the Car there & left .

ch.1953 .We have Silverstar here as well but they also dont want to touch M120's .I only recently tested them ,i didnt need them but occasionally i ring MB service centers at Random if they put there Act together ,None found so far exept one which works at a European Wrecking Yard .
His name is Harry & worked with the M120 W140's in general when they came out .He is the one that installed my M120 into the ex 600SE swb i had before . He could pin point a problem on my V12 by just listening to the engine ,problem is ,he decided to Wreck cars now instead of repairing them ,this was 4-5 years ago.

He works at ASV European Wreckers at Villawood TROY .


Merry Christmas to all.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
$16,000!!!
I am not surprised. I got quoted close to 4K for an inlet manifold to suit my e55. Ludicrous. You are right In saying our local dealers are catering strictly to the disposable, mass produced modern Mercedes- it is my experience also.
And thanks again for the offer Chris. I will be over soon enough and hopefully not on a tow truck.
p.s I am familiar with asv and have sourced parts from there before but I did not know there was an expert in their! Great news.
Cheers.
 
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