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1986 560SL with M120 V12 Engine, 1988 560SL Stock
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As requested, here are some photos of the upper to lower manifold seal area. The access is a pain but I don't think replacing them is hard. The hard part is getting the manifold off and making sure you don't break anything in the process. That makes it a two day job for a home mechanic and that is if you have all of the gaskets and seals ready to go and no other complications as in my case(broken bolt). I am by no means a 560 CIS expert, as this is my first one, but I think those seals are usually not the prime suspect when it comes to air leaks. My 1975 has it's original ones and I have no leaks. My first and waaay easier target would be various hoses and then the large rubber intake boot sitting on top of the manifold. You see it in the third photo. This one got torn during removal. They are reasonably cheap and easy to replace once the fuel lines and wiring is disconnected.
I never got one of those rubber boots off without tearing it. Of course the new ones are nice and pliable.
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #22
I just snagged this 1973 "beauty" from her 15 year nap in a South Carolina field. I already took some parts off that I need for my 1975 and will tow it to my garage for further dismantling. The car itself is sadly beyond resurrection as both trunk and floors are rusted through but it does have quite a few salvageable parts. Interestingly, it has only a driver side rear view mirror. That is the first American model 450sl that I saw equipped like that. It is sad to see and early R107 in such a shape but at least it will donate some parts to keep others on the road. Let me know if you need any parts as I will be putting some stuff up for sale once I take what I need and before I send the rest to a crusher.
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #23
I am back to my transplant project and about to do chain guides, chain, sprockets and valve guides on the 560. I remember reading somewhere that I also need to swap distributor gear as initially I will be using the distributor from the 450. I took a photo today and gears at the base of the two distributors look identical(see photo) so I don't see the reason to swap the gears on the block. Does anyone know if these were different on 560vs450? I also port matched intakes and had the flywheel resurfaced. One of the big headaches was to find a new clutch disc as they are out of production. After some research I found a place that rebuilds them but will have to wait about three weeks to get it back as they need to order the right material for my application.
MB560engine 1.jpg
MB560 engine 2.jpg
MB450 vs. 560 distributor gear.jpg
 

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1998 ML320, 1975 280C
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45 Posts
I can see in the photo that one gear isn't as far down as the other! Measure from dist. base to the top and bottom of the gear on each unit.
 

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'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
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251 Posts
From what I'm told the distributor in the alloy block front cover sits at a slightly different angle and the helix in the gear is not the same. I would definitely keep them together. Measure the height as well, it may not be centered on the drive gear if it's not correct and a stripped gear would really suck when it washed your motor down with bits of it. I would personally install it once it's all back together with dye or grease on the gear and bar it over to check the heel pattern on them.
I would really try to find some 560sl exhaust manifolds too. They are significantly larger inside and the port is slightly offset. I have some but I'm not really to inclined to sell them. Roncallo may have a pair from Sampson still around.

You shouldn't have any length/depth issues with the input shaft but getting that intermediate plate carved out and more importantly perfectly centered and even more importantly to stay where you got it centered is going to be interested. There are only a couple holes that line up and no dowel pins.

I've got a 450slc with a 4 speed and that clutch pushrod isca dirty trick by mercedes. The housing is the same but the piston and rod are different. Longer rod and the piston depression is different depth as well. I have a hybrid and a custom pushrod made from a small block Chevy pushrod. As far as power for the g76 based 4 speeds, they take massive abuse. I know a guy in turkey that was putting over 400hp of turbo m110 through his. Diesel pump UK owner says he's never had a customer break one with 300+ hp om 617 cars and I drift my car and clutch kick it at 6500 rpm all day long. I broke the sprung hub in the clutch disc and welded it up and rebalanced it. Still taking beatings on a regular basis. I run redline atf for manuals that use atf, NOT mt90. It's good stuff. I really hope to see this get done because ive heard it's been done but no one hss one running. That input alignment is my worry, especially for me since I am not gentle. I'd have one in my car already if I wasnt.
 

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R/C107 Moderator
1986 560SL: '84 500SL: '84 280SL 5 speed: other 107s
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31,991 Posts
The gear that drives the dizzy is the same in both engines.
 

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'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
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251 Posts
The gear that drives the dizzy is the same in both engines.
I'm not sure how when it's obviously different in the pic he shows of both. You mean the gear teeth are the same? Either way the mesh pattern should be checked before running it.
 

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'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
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251 Posts
The gear that drives the dizzy is the same in both engines.
Oh! do you mean the gear that drives the distributor gear from the timing chain?
 

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1984 380SL
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2,363 Posts
You are absolutely right, but I already have replaced the AFM booth + all hoses connected to the throttle body. During a smoke test and with a little camera I can see the smoke coming from deeper in the manifold, that's why I am suspecting one of the donuts.

Thanks again for the photo's!
It's an absolutely dirty and disgusting job replacing the lower intake plenum donuts and gaskets.

Parts are cheap, but it's an 8-12 hour job because there is so much crap in the way. Expect a few bolts to break and allot time for helicoiling.

Here's a thread with some pictures of the process. Good luck!
 

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R/C107 Moderator
1986 560SL: '84 500SL: '84 280SL 5 speed: other 107s
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Oh! do you mean the gear that drives the distributor gear from the timing chain?
Yes. EPC shows same part numbers. The part number is the same for all 107 V/8s
 

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'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
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251 Posts
Yes. EPC shows same part numbers. The part number is the same for all 107 V/8s
Right. But from what I'm told the distributor is sitting at a different angle in the the alloy and iron block timing covers. So the gear on the distributor would probably need to be slightly different. The alloy block distributor is larger so it makes sense. It's woul be easy enough to see with an angle finder too.
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #34
I guess we will see this weekend as I pull it out of 560 and compare it to the 450 in the photo.
In response to rwd4evr and his concerns about alignment of the intermediate plate and bellhousing, it will certainly be a challenge. I already carved up the center of the plate to make it fit the 560 rear main seal housing. Currently the two top center holes are being filled in and more material is being added to enable new holes being drilled.
As far as the exhaust manifolds are concerned I will stick to the early 450 ones as they fit the rest of the exhaust system. I port matched them and sent them to Jet-Hot for ceramic coating. I am glad to hear that the gearbox can handle extra hp and torque. I have seen some of your drifting work on YouTube and was wondering how long the transmission will last. I don't plan to take it that far but I do engage in some spirited driving occasionaly. Since I converted my 450 g76 I used Redline MTL and have had no problems. Any reason you use ATF instead of MTL?
 

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'85 300tdt (sold),'64 220b,'63 220Sb ,85 monte carlo ss 406SBC(4 sale),1976 vega wagon(sold)
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251 Posts
That's what I use. The mt 90 is different. I couldn't remember what it was called at the moment. It's the stuff designed for manual trans that use atf like the g76. My synchros are not good at all especially the 1 2 shift . It made a big difference.
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #36
Today I did chain, sprockets, upper and lower guides as well as valve seals. The only one I forgot was the guide for the oil pump chain. I already ordered it but cannot close the timing chain cover until that is done. Here are some photos of old guides. The chain had no master link so I think it was the original.
20200131_171825.jpg
20200202_144716.jpg
 

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Outstanding Contributor
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro
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22,216 Posts
Are you planning to put the timing chain case cover from the 4.5 on the 5.6? Does it fit? Maybe get a timing case cover and distributor from a 3.8 to be able to use the older simpler ignition? ?? I don’t know.
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #38
I don't know if 450 cover would fit but I will put the 560 on and try D-jet distributor to see if it spins as it should. I plan to run the car on D-jet first and then get it running on Megasquirt.
 

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Outstanding Contributor
450slc5.0cab 280sl5sp 280se4.5 500seAMG +250seStkW108 350sl4spdX3 500secEuro
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22,216 Posts
I don't know if 450 cover would fit but I will put the 560 on and try D-jet distributor to see if it spins as it should. I plan to run the car on D-jet first and then get it running on Megasquirt.
Do the d-jet injectors fit the 560 motor?
 

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1975 450sl
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77 Posts
Discussion Starter #40
They should wit the right seals. The bigger problem is the D-jet intake manifold. The lower plenum is too long to fit 560 valley so I had to carve it up to fit.
 
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