Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I picked up a 5 speed and all the fixins fom a 190d 2.2, yeah, a 717.410 the weakest of the 5 speed boxes. I know. To put in my 3.6 W124 wagon....anyway. I know about the flywheel issues, singe vs dual mass. Gonna go wtih a 2.6L M103 flywheel, should be single mass and have the magnets for the crank sensor. If not I can add the magnets. Also should have a 9" clutch. A 9 inch cluch should be able to put up with 275 ftlbs of torque from the 3.6.

Here is my big issue, the transmission. It has the small flex disc on it. From what I can tell the big flex disc wont fit without some grinding. I know Ill shred the small discs after a few thousand miles. But even if I can grind enough to get the big disc on there, which I think ive seen someone do...whats the torque rating of the 717.410? Im not hard on my cars shifting, I dont bang gears or do burn outs. Im not nice to my cars but I tend to not beat on the transmission. I would assume it would last for a while...thoughts? I mean the .411 seems to have holding up issues as well when power is added. But on that note if your not mean to it, things tnd to last anyway. The 722.3 trans from the 3.2 never cared about the 3.6 n front of it, no issues what so ever, and the 722.6 I have in there now is from a C230 4 cyl car. Again, no issues. But im almost tripling the power into that litle .410 box, so I dunno.

Lmme know your thoughts
 

·
Registered
87 300D 5 speed
Joined
·
5,332 Posts
Gonna go wtih a 2.6L M103 flywheel, should be single mass and have the magnets for the crank sensor.
The 89+ 2.6 has a dual mass flywheel with magnets and 3 timing windows. Your m104 will also require the timing windows in order to function properly. Your only off the shelf flywheel option will be an 87 or 88 2.6 or 3.0 m103. I have seen people weld those 3 timing windows on 4cyl flywheels but it ain't easy.

Here is my big issue, the transmission. It has the small flex disc on it. From what I can tell the big flex disc wont fit without some grinding. I know Ill shred the small discs after a few thousand miles.
My modified om603 turbo hasn't shreaded the small flex disk yet in the last 50k miles and it's making more torque than that. Just make sure you get Lemforder or febi flex disk.
But even if I can grind enough to get the big disc on there, which I think ive seen someone do...whats the torque rating of the 717.410?
No idea.

Your biggest issue is going to be sourcing that single mass flywheel with the timing windows to work with the m104 and diesel trans.
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Ok, interesting info on the flex disk. I never use anything other then lemforder or febi for these kinds parts, but the small one should hold up? And the flywheel I sourced was 103 030 14 05. I'm sure someone can verify but it's a single mass 3 window flywheel, the magnet is the only question. But that's apparantly an easy add. So you think the small .410 trans would be fine then too?
 

·
Registered
87 300D 5 speed
Joined
·
5,332 Posts
Ok, interesting info on the flex disk. I never use anything other then lemforder or febi for these kinds parts, but the small one should hold up? And the flywheel I sourced was 103 030 14 05. I'm sure someone can verify but it's a single mass 3 window flywheel, the magnet is the only question. But that's apparantly an easy add. So you think the small .410 trans would be fine then too?
I don't think the transmission is small. The gear ratio are just optimized for the om601. I don't think it's any one box more or less failure prone than any other MB 5spd from the era. The SL320 and E320 used the getrag dogleg and that gear box was definitely stronger but it lacks overdrive. I guess the trick is don't drive like an idiot. I avoid clutch dumps and burnouts.

Another issue you're going to run into is the 3 shifter pushrods. The w201 pushrods are a bit too short for the w124.
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I guess the trick is don't drive like an idiot. I avoid clutch dumps and burnouts.
This^^. I don't drive like an idiot haha so we're in the same boat then. And I knew about the rod lengths. They have to be extended an Inch or so. Bummer haha, but not hard to do. I got lucky with the 722.6 swap I didn't have to change anything, it was literally bolt in and redrill the xmember. Thanks for the Info
 

·
Registered
Mercedes-Benz
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
Here is my big issue, the transmission. It has the small flex disc on it. From what I can tell the big flex disc wont fit without some grinding. I know Ill shred the small discs after a few thousand miles. But even if I can grind enough to get the big disc on there, which I think ive seen someone do..
This sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. I ran into similar problem in opposite direction trying to mate 717.430 to early W201 manual driveshaft. Ended up getting an auto driveshaft modded because locating a later W201 manual driveshaft wasn't happening. May not be as easy to find the small driveshaft yoke to mate to .410 trans but that beats drilling out the bolt holes on a flex disc.

As for the torque rating, lots of people run .411/412 with 6cyl because it's the most common gear box and do so without issue.
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Thing is I have everything. Trans, shifter, rods, the matching driveshaft for the small yoke, etc etc. Plan was to either get a 411 trans and modify the driveshaft length, or use the 410 trans and modify the length and the end of the shaft with the smaller flex disc yoke, which I have. Or seeing if my auto 722.3 output flange will fit on the 410, and modify the back of the case on the 410 to accommodate the larger flex disc which I think I've seen. I saw pics of a 126 drive shaft bolted to a 410 trans. I wouldn't think that the auto to manual flange is interchangable, but the input shaft size and spline is the same on every trans that's a single mass flywheel, and same with the dual mass. And since these are all Mercedes designed parts in the end, and they seemed to like the interchangeablity of parts, so I might get lucky.
 

·
Registered
Mercedes-Benz
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
I looked into the output flange compatibility between auto/manual and they for a given flex disc diameter have different part numbers. I'm not sure about dimensions and spline counts, but I doubt it honestly and wish you luck because that would be the simplest and cheapest option. If you have the driveshaft for the .410 you'll just need a 3.0/3.2 W124 driveshaft for the rear female spline and a driveshaft shop can mate the two.
 

·
Registered
Mercedes-Benz
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
And about the flywheel, the 103 flywheel doesn't have magnets. Adding them is shown in this link.


I got my M103 flywheel lightened. I stupidly didn't get a before weight, but here it is compared to an unaltered M102 flywheel. A good bit lighter although it's possible that the M102 flywheel starts out heavier with its smaller clutch.

16.5lbs


24lbs
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
I do have the complete driveshaft for the 410 trans from the 201 chassis. So the 300e 124 driveshaft used the same small spline? I could theoretically use the 410 front section and a standard 300e rear section? That would be idea and Im pretty sure I could source a rear section for an M103 W124 rear driveshaft.
 

·
Registered
Mercedes-Benz
Joined
·
1,119 Posts
201 driveshaft spline is smaller than 3.0/3.2 W124. My suggestion was to take a commonly found W124 driveshaft along with your .410 driveshaft and have a driveshaft shop make a custom unit. Alternatively you could use a 260E rear section which has the smaller spline to mate to 201 driveshaft. This assumes that the manual 201 driveshaft is the correct length for 124 which I do not know.
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thats what I thought. I was gonna get the trans in, and measure the length for the front section. Take my stock 124 drive shaft and the front section of the 201 drive shaft and have the small flange welded in place and the whole unit balanced. I dont see any reason to start with a totally separate unit, Ill just have mine modified. I just dont want to find that im going to destroy the small flex disc with the 3.6, but if tjts1 has been running a modded diesel with more tq than the 3.6, which is easy with a modded diesel, and hes not blowing through em, them im not worried about it. Like he said, dont be an idiot :p
 

·
Registered
87 300D 5 speed
Joined
·
5,332 Posts
I've been running the small spline, small flex disks for years now in the diesel. There's a few standardized measurements on the w124/w201. The distance between the flywheel and the center support bearing is the same on all cars. So as long as you get the 190 front DS half you're all set. The read DS length is dictated by wheel base so as previously mentioned I'll have to come out of a 260e/300e 2.6. If you go this route you'll have to swap the smaller input flange onto your diff. Keep in mind that this would be a permanent acheeles heel of the swap. If you really want to beat on it you'll need a stronger driveshaft.
2611867
2611869
2611868

The other thing you can do is swap a shorter diff which would reduce the stress on all components. For the first 4 years after the swap I kept the same 2.64 diff that came with the diesel. It was a PITA to accelerate off the line up hill or with passengers or AC on. Then I swapped a a 3.07 diff out of a 300e (with the smaller flange) which transformed the car and made much more fun to drive. It jumps off the line now so much easier.
 

·
Registered
1995 E320 wagon
Joined
·
392 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
Im gonna keep the big driveshaft and have it modified for the smaller yoke. My driveshaft needs a ujoint and a balance anyway. And any used shaft would need a balance of I'm mis matching halvs. Don't wanna change the stuff, I have a big 3.07 diff anyway.
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Top