[240_benz]

About 2 months ago the right side head gasket finally blew on my 380SE. Short story is a certain family member of mine who shall not be named was driving it and didn't pay attention to the gauge when it went into the red. Well, we all can figure out what happened next . Anyhow since then, the car has been laid up in my garage until I can get my hands on another engine for it. I'd replace the gaskets on the original one but since it's just a hair shy of 300k it's due for an overhaul anyway. The oil burn is excessive, it leaks in several spots, and it's time for a new chain, tensioner, guides, the whole business... Compression when last checked was decent but could be better. So, after lots of thinking and recommendation from a mechanic friend of mine I've decided to swap the engine so that way I can keep the car on the road while I rebuild the original motor. The 380 has been in my family since 1986 and I'd like to keep it that way.

So, here's the current option on the table: I recently put an ad out on Craigslist for an engine. Yesterday I got a reply from a gentleman with a 5.0L ECE motor. As soon as I read that I had to read it again but yes, it's a Euro 500SEL high compression motor. On average, what is one of those worth? I plan on doing the swap myself since I have access to the auto shop at school with indoor storage etc. Also, what (if any) parts such as sensors, will need to be swapped over from the 500 motor or transferred from the 380 to make it work?

Vehicle in question: 1985 380SE US Spec
Donor: 500SEL Euro

Thanks!

 

[graftdesign]

Although a Euro swap is relatively straightforward... it's not like swapping a US motor with another US spec motor. There are usually other things involved like swapping out the harness and EZL among other things.
I had mine swapped professionally and it was a bit more involved than just taking out one motor and putting in another. Some splicing and soldering was involved as it wasn't a direct swap and connectors were very different. For instance in my case an 8pin EZL vs. a 4 pin US spec.

I wouldn't recommend it unless you REALLY know the differences between the engines and it's components.

 

[bondavi]

What year is the donor vehicle/VIN?

99% of euro 5.0's out there here in CA are Gen1 Euros (up til '85), whereas the Gen2 ECE's came aftterwards in '86. They are identifiable by the radiator support stickers showing EZL function - the early Gen2 cars used 4-pin ezl's, whereas the post '88's used 8-pin.

I found two Gen2 500's (a 86 and 89) in the junkyards, the '86 had tri-y's (ECE), the '89 had Euro logs (KAT version) - look there for clues:

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-sd/1422987-junkyard-surprise-1986-500sel-euro.html

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w12...4-junkyard-surprise-part-deux-1989-500se.html

So make sure what you are being offered is an actual Gen2 ECE motor - it will also have tri-y 2-piece manifolds per bank.

How much its worth?? Depends on condition/mileage. Got pics of the donor car? Good luck and let us know hot it goes! :thumbsup:

 

[Dr.Grillz]

Its a Gen I and more than likely the "ECE" 5.0 motor is also an early (gen I) M117. I think the motor can be swapped, as I think there are a lot of similarities. However, as previously noted... you'll need to see what needs to be done for a M117 to be placed into a car originally with a M116.

 

[240_benz]

Wow, this'll be way more involved than I had thought. Good thing I asked.

While I'm good at electrical, I'm not going to have time to rewire the harness what with school and all that. It'd be a lovely swap no doubt but being that the motor is an M117 it'll need some modification to get it to work with my car. Thinking about time & my budget I'll stick with a US motor swap so that it'll remain 'plug & play.' The last thing I need is to get harassed by the campus police jerks for having a non-running car stored by the shop. Why they're like that I'll never know but that's how it goes here at Cal Maritime. There are several of us with major engine jobs to do and no place to keep our vehicles :banghead:

That said, thank you for pointing that stuff out!

Will a US 420 or 560 go in without much trouble?

 

[bondavi]

I would recommend the 500 gen1 swap because a lot of your 380 parts can swap over with relative ease.

Some have done a 560 swap using a 500 top end, though the intake manifold is different.

Have you discerned yet if the motor you were offered was a Gen1 or 2?

 

[lsfeder]

Not to hijack the thread but its on topic. How hard would it be to go from Gen 2 US 560 to Gen 2 Euro 560? Can one just swap the computers and EZL to make it all work right?

 

[240_benz]

I would recommend the 500 gen1 swap because a lot of your 380 parts can swap over with relative ease.

Some have done a 560 swap using a 500 top end, though the intake manifold is different.

Have you discerned yet if the motor you were offered was a Gen1 or 2?

Alright I'll keep my eyes peeled for a 500 US. Motor is a 1989 8-pin (or so I'm told). I want to go look at it to be sure.

 

[Chadahar]

PM sent.

 

[Dr.Grillz]

Alright I'll keep my eyes peeled for a 500 US. Motor is a 1989 8-pin

If the motor the seller is selling is a 1989,then its a rare bird in the US. Worth looking into, FYI.

 

[240_benz]

^ Very true. I emailed the guy back asking when he's available to meet up. I want to see it in person so I can verify that it's the right motor and that it actually runs. Never can be too careful.

It probably won't be until next weekend that I'll be able to go have a look. I'm scheduled with watch duty on the ship all weekend so it'll need to wait a week.

 

[240_benz]

Got another email

This just in: I just got a response from another person also with a 500 motor. I will also look into that.

 

[Teutone]

Any Gen I motor (up to 85) will be pretty much plug and play, the Euro only slightly different.
A Gen I 500 Euro I have is marked 10:1 HV (Hochverdichtung = high compression) and minus the one sensor on pass side close to fire wall the U.S. version has.
Check the back of your engine at the firewall. The Euro doesn't have the (right cyl bank strangling) cross over pipe from the pass side exhaust manifold to the drivers side manifold and a single down pipe, but 2 separate down pipes on each side.
Cheers

 

[240_benz]

Any Gen I motor (up to 85) will be pretty much plug and play, the Euro only slightly different.
A Gen I 500 Euro I have is marked 10:1 HV (Hochverdichtung = high compression) and minus the one sensor on pass side close to fire wall the U.S. version has.
The Euro doesn't have the cross over pipe from the pass side exhaust manifold to the drivers side, but one down pipe on each side.

Great, now that makes sense. With that being the case, can I use my stock 380 manifold on that motor?

 

[bondavi]

No, the intake valleys are narrower between the 116 and 117.

I'd be more than happy to help advise on your project - one choice being with a gen1 500 euro.

A Gen2 500 motor would best be dispensed for what it is, and the proceeds towards an gen1 euro 500 motor that plays nice w/ your current 380SE hardware...

You'd get a LOT more horsepower (70+!) with the euro 500 swap.

Hang steady in there! :thumbsup:

Great, now that makes sense. With that being the case, can I use my stock 380 manifold on that motor?

 

[V12StealthHunter]

Might as well take it up as a slow project and put on EFI and be rid of all the EZL BZL bullshit.