[DokaTD]

Ok, I should probably find a German forum to ask these questions, but here we are.

My 411C came with some convincing Lucas L713 tail lights. Now I need some eubber Grommets for the mounting hardware and when I saw they were Lucas I paused and thought maybe these are not stock. So I’m here to ask the collective if these are right or if I need to source new lights all together.

 

[TRUKTOR]

If you have a photo or two, I will go through 1.5 zillion photos of restored 411's to see if they show up regularly, occasionally, or never.

 

[wengejor]

I'm using U1300l tail lights on my 411.

If you want 411 lights go to mogparts.de

I'm sure they have the right ones for you.

 

[DokaTD]

This is what mine came with. They attach to the back of the bed with plates cut to the same shape.

 

[wengejor]

I think the 411c had bosch lights on the rear. I've not seen that style of light before.

 

[DokaTD]

I think the 411c had bosch lights on the rear. I've not seen that style of light before.

Bosch or hella would have been expected.

 

[TRUKTOR]

I took a look, and I didn’t see any that matched your taillights.
The Amber / Red combo is frequently seen, but a lot of them look like aftermarket stuff.
I did notice an Oval version, Red and Amber, that appeared often on what I’d call Museum Quality restorations. They are small, and looked believably original.
I went to Mogparts ( an excellent suggestion), and Bingo - the Oval lamps appear with the ‘OEM’ tag on the listing.

I think that seals it, but it depends on the year.

Many 411’s have the rectangular Hellas that also appear on the 403 -406- 416-SBU’s, Etc. UNIMOGs. I believe that they are probably correct for the later 411’s.

Again, Mogparts would know, I reckon.

 

[TRUKTOR]

Yours might be an original upgrade for 411 snowblowers, something that Schmidt went with for better visibility in winter conditions.

When I get a chance, I can scroll through the 411 Snow Cutter files, and check the black and white vintage files as well.

 

[TRUKTOR]

OK, I looked through a pretty good-sized wad of photos, and I can report :

A. I did not find any that matched yours, so far.
B. The Early 411's at least, looked to have the small oval bi-color lamps.
C. I did not find anything like yours on 411 Snow cutters, although some larger round lamps are seen, as are the common rectangular Hellas.
D.I did not go into the Frogeye or Westfalia files, I just stuck with the 'Door Stop' open 411's.
E. The Swiss did not use the small ovals on their Swiss Army 2010's - they upgraded to a slightly larger round lamp. I did not go through every 2010 file, but enough to see the trend.
F. The Ovals are authentic, and they are small - they tend to disappear in photos as they are tucked up under the bed.
G. There are Rights and Lefts on the Oval lamps - the Left side has the clear lens on the bottom to illuminate the license plate.
H. I think that the later 411's moved away from the ovals to the rectangular Hellas. I did not do any research on this - I'm just guessing that is the case, based solely on staring at photos for a while. They might have moved to a larger bi-color Round lamp in between the two, again, just based on looking at photos and seeing the round lamps on nicely restored 411's.
Both Mogparts and MogWorld show the lamps - Note the Hella logo on the lens.

 

[TRUKTOR]

OK, Hold the Dang Phone...

I found one photo of a 411 Schmidt snow cutter with what looks to be a good match for your lamps. This would change things, if true, and put the lamps you have into the OEM category.
Probably - Maybe.

The photo of the 411 isn't the greatest, but there is one detail that has me fairly convinced. The shape is similar, and maybe you can confirm if the scale is right, since you have a lamp and the bed to compare it to. The thing that got me is the Red horizontal reflective band that separates the top Amber portion from the lower Red part. The Band is quite clear in the photo of the 411.
So, maybe SCHMIDT did tap into the products of 'The Prince of Darkness' for an upgrade at the rear of their snow cutters ?
I'll leave it to you, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just enjoy digging through stuff to try and find an answer. Now that I think there is a match, I can do a finer sifting of the 411 Snow Cutter piles and see what shows up.

 

[wengejor]

My book shows 2 styles of lights for the 411. See 100 and 95 in the pic. Bosch is the rectangular one with 3 bulbs. Hella is the oval one.

 

[wengejor]

I think this is the proper rucklicht for the 411c.

Rücklicht links Bosch, Unimog|MB-trac - Nutzfahrzeuge Kindermann, 155

Nutzfahrzeuge Kindermann Elektrikteile in OEM Qualität für Unimog & MB-trac. NFZ-Kindermann, Meisterbetrieb der KFZ- Innung Niederbayern.

www.nutzfahrzeuge-kindermann.de

 

[TRUKTOR]

Hella also made the rectangular lamp, probably with minor detail changes.

 

[TRUKTOR]

More of the ovals.

 

[wengejor]

TRUKTOR, it looks like just 2 of your pics show a 411c (406 style axle) with the oval lights. Do you have any pics of the 411c with square lights?

 

[DokaTD]

OK, Hold the Dang Phone...

I found one photo of a 411 Schmidt snow cutter with what looks to be a good match for your lamps. This would change things, if true, and put the lamps you have into the OEM category.
Probably - Maybe.

The photo of the 411 isn't the greatest, but there is one detail that has me fairly convinced. The shape is similar, and maybe you can confirm if the scale is right, since you have a lamp and the bed to compare it to. The thing that got me is the Red horizontal reflective band that separates the top Amber portion from the lower Red part. The Band is quite clear in the photo of the 411.
So, maybe SCHMIDT did tap into the products of 'The Prince of Darkness' for an upgrade at the rear of their snow cutters ?
I'll leave it to you, I don't have a dog in the fight, I just enjoy digging through stuff to try and find an answer. Now that I think there is a match, I can do a finer sifting of the 411 Snow Cutter piles and see what shows up.

View attachment 2803510

View attachment 2803508 View attachment 2803509

Well hell, I wouldn’t want to play clue with you!!! Those are them 100%. Guess I can feel ok about keeping them. Assuming I can resolve the rubber mounts.

 

[wengejor]

If they have custom mounting plates that are of factory quality, then they deserve to stay. That's my opinion.

The one thing I like about the 1300l lights is that the box is metal.

 

[TRUKTOR]

Here is a thought - What if, by the oddest chance, your Ex-Schmidt cutter was one of one with those taillights ? I know, it is an absurd idea, but if you have any paperwork that goes back far enough, and includes the License Plate details, it isn't impossible. It might be tough to prove that others didn't also have them mounted up.

I have not found any other photos of that rig (yet), except for this one showing the front of it.

One clue would be the holes for the extra plate on the right side. You have the usual round medallion ( Silberne Preismunze), the 'Acorn', and then something rectangular above them. It might be a Schmidt Plate, but whatever it is, I think it is a fair bet that they drilled some holes to mount it up.

Schmidt had plates that had the data for the cutter (for example), and these plates were generally mounted right on the cutter or whatever. But they also had rectangular plates that were just Schmidt identifiers, and they did not have the blank spaces to punch the equipment specifics into. It could be one of those.

Wild Speculation.

 

[TRUKTOR]

Some Schmidt equipment plates. I would not expect to see these mounted on the body, but the ones posted above might be reasonable candidates.

 

[DokaTD]

I definitely have the Acorn as well as a missing round plate that sat above it. But no Schmidt plates. As well, it’s certainly possible that is my truck pictured there. Certainly a far cry from that now.