Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 7 of 7 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Hi
I am thinking of buying another Unimog. I previously owned a 404 military carrier. I brought it with the idea of using it in European winch competition however sold it due to other commitments.

Before I commit to buying another Mog I thought I’d ask a quick question.

When I owned my 404 I never took is seriously off road. However from driving it I did find that in mud and sandy terrain as soon as the wheels spun it was stuck, because of the lack of power you never real able to get any momentum up to push through.

Because of this I am consider a 416. Does the power from the OM352 make it any more capable in the mud or is it a similar story to the 404.

The thing that put me of owning a 416 was the fact that it’s one more step up. I’ve owned a fair few 4x4’s and when I owned a 404 it seemed quite serious, like working on an actual lorry.
How much harder is it to work on a 416?

Cheers
 

·
Registered
4Sale: 230G, U1200 Ag, 1017A, lots of MB cars, Volvo c303, 416 raildoka, LR D110 TDi
Joined
·
1,217 Posts
A 416 is a bit more complex than a 404, but I personally don't think that it is enough more difficult to work on to really influence your choice of truck. You have to remember that all of the components on the 416 are heavier, both in weight and strength, and that the total weight of the 416 will be heavier, probably by 1500-2500 lbs depending on options, ect. The extra torque and HP will help a bit with getting momentum, but at the end of the day the 416 won't be able to get much more wheel spin than the 404 to clean the tires. If you are going to be in a lot of muddy and sandy situations, you should really look into getting a set of Agricultural tread tires like Michelin XM's or Conti. AC70G's, or something similar. These type of tires clean really well at lower speeds, and you can "walk" through the mud in most situations that would leave you stuck with a normal MPT tire.

Cheers,
Ben
 

·
Registered
85' U1300L Holset Turbo VA A/C, 66' Propane 404.1 rock mog, 1975 416 Doka, G500, Volvo C303
Joined
·
5,035 Posts
Do not use a mog for winch challenge. You will loose every time.

Not saying a mog won't do it, it's just not ideal for that type of event.
 

·
Registered
'78 Mog 416.141 DoKa
Joined
·
3,417 Posts
Mud driving a Mog is a different thing then a normal off-roader. The huge amount of ground clearance allows you to find a bottom (if one exists) and just crawl through. As has been said, you need to choose your tires carefully if mud is a serious issue where you wheel.
 

·
Registered
U1600AG + a LR 90
Joined
·
995 Posts
With regard to the UK, you cannot use tractor type tyres in competition be it trials, winch challenge or a speed event so xm47/ac70g etc are out of the question even though they are a “standard” tyre for the vehicle so you would have to look at Michelin XML witch have more grip in reverse than xm47/ac70g etc and only slightly less grip than xm47/ac70g etc going forward.

Dependent on the event as diff locks are fitted standard to the vehicle rather than after market you normally get to run in standard classes as the diff locks don’t then count as modification unlike if you e.g. put lockers etc in land rover axels or put 404 axel under a land rover, G-wagon with diff locks are also treated the same as mogs as they are factory fitted.

With respect to competing in UK winch challenge your main downside will be your extra weight over e.g. Land Rovers @ 2 to 2.2 tonnes and the limitations of what you can fix your winch rope to in the case of 416 etc or the fact you will have to employ 2 ground anchors ware others are employing 1 ground anchor and also by the time you have added some drum brake wheels to set the wheel track as wide as possible on a 416 you will be to wide for some of the obstacles like between trees (which you can flatten) also the more winches you fit the higher the class your competing agenised however you can be sneaky and mount a centre winch that can do the rear, front and from the side in the centre however there will be times you will need to pull from the side & the rear or front at the same time, however if your confident in your co-drivers ability on rope rigging and using the capstan effect for some lowering or countering side slope or aiding turning from side slope to up hill then all the better as a length of rope is not a winch, its also worth noting that punch cards are required to be on the passenger side so clarification may be needed to allow them on the drivers side on LHD vehicles!

In speed events like “safari” then your not going to win by outright speed on timed single laps unless narrow bits are muddy with soft ground ware your wheel ruts will slow the competition down, I have seen standard power 416 win before this way by each lap making the ground in the narrow bits ruts the full width so all the other would fall into them and bottom out come to a stop so in the end only he could get threw without winching or being recovered thus he had the highest number of laps and the lowest average speed even though he was the slowest vehicle - he never raced his 416 agene as they didn’t like it and I now think they are automatically lumped in with T3/T4 classes which they don’t race in the UK so you would have to go to Europe to compete.

Have you considered a G-wagon? Most have diff locks from the factory there is a big choice of Merc engines, straight 4, 5, 6 & V6, V8 with everything from N/A to supercharged and everything between, its what I would use even though I have owned Land Rovers for 24 years though I have also though about using mogs but as everything its finding a co-driver use to bigger stuff is the problem.
 

·
Registered
1962 404, 1957 405SH and lots of Landrovers
Joined
·
303 Posts
Having helped set a few a few winch challange sections i would say the size, weight and cheapness of parts of a 404 against a 416 would be a major factor. A 416 may not get round the section and if you do get stuck who's big enough to pull you out? at least with a 404 you have a chance of being recovered by a LR with a good winch and some snatch blocks.

j
 
1 - 7 of 7 Posts
Top