[mjhapp]

Hello, all

I've reached my limit of troubleshooting based on the information that I could find in these newsgroups and am hoping someone can help.

Several weeks ago, I jumped into the car (2015 E400 Convertible, LHD), put the top down and drove a mile down the street, parked the car and the top wouldn't go back up.

The windows functioned but nothing from the top--no whining or whirring or anything.

So, I drove back home and parked it in the garage and began prodding. Hooked up the OBD tester thing that I have but no codes. After a while, I was over it and went back inside the house.

A couple of hours later (maybe it was the next day) I went out and tried again and it went right up. No issues.

Over the next week or so (absolutely not trusting it) I was careful about when I put the top up or down. A couple of times, it failed but then would work again after an hour. Sometimes it failed to go up. Sometimes failed to go down. In all cases, the windows, headrests and wind deflector did what they were supposed to do but nothing else. Finally, it stopped working altogether.

I was finally able to get some codes from it (Foxwell 510 Elite, I believe) after it fully stopped working.

ID, Status, Description
B255F24, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid IN CATCH POSITION' has a malfunction. No signal change. Voltage level is too high."
B25452A, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid LOCKED' has a malfunction. There is no signal change."

The first issue that I have is that those codes (B255F24, B25452A) can't be found anywhere that I have access to. They don't seem to be valid Mercedes codes and there is no lookup available from Foxwell.

By doing a ton of research on this forum, it SEEMS like the IN CATCH POSITION is S84/22 and LOCKED is S84/23 (or vice-versa... I tested them and replaced one and they are the same switch). I assumed that because both error codes refer to 'lid' not 'bow' or 'roof'... The terminology is all over the place but I assume 'lid' is the same as 'cover' and not 'top' or 'roof'.

Both of the relevant fuses that I could find (61 and 62, iirc) are fine. I can't find a relay anywhere.

Given that the pump does nothing, I would assume it's either the controller not giving the signal or that there is a fuse or relay somewhere that is bad... Rolling in the fault codes, and given that both of those limit switches tested fine, I assumed it was the N22/6... and replaced it with a reman unit from Mercedes directly... Same story. Clearing those two codes on the Foxwell and rescanning for codes immediately gives me those two codes again.

If I sit in the car (or use the key from the outside) and attempt to put he top down, all of the windows go down, the back seat headrests go down (if they happened to be up) and then nothing happens. No unlatching of the cover, no unlatching of the top at the windshield and no noise from the pump that I can hear.

So, long story longer, N22/6 is replaced and it's unlikely that a freshly remanufactured unit (in my opinion) would be defective in exactly the same way my original one is (assuming it is). The limit switches that I THOUGHT were indicated by the fault codes test s/c and o/c as they should. Fuses 61 and 62 are fine. Can't find a relay anywhere.

The problem was initially intermittent. Maybe someone with intimiate knowledge of the 'top opening steps' could say what the issues is just by where the process stops.

I'm beginning to wonder if the 'lid' in the fault code is a mistranslation and actually refers to the TOP/ROOF in catch position and locked:
...switches
S84/11 (Left soft top "locked" limit switch)
S84/18 (Soft top limit switch in catch position)
... instead of (as I assumed)
S84/22 (Soft top compartment cover in catch position limit switch)
S84/23 (Soft top compartment cover "locked" limit switch)
(And I don't know whether S84/11 and S84/18 being routed to the CANbus have anything to do with how/whether they showed up on my Foxwell tester...)

It's got be either that, a second bad control unit, some other relay/fuse or, I guess, aliens or something. Maybe a ghost.

Anyone make it far enough into this post to have an idea?!

Thanks!
Marshall

---
N22/6 - A207-900-65-00-04 (part I received 207-900-65-00-80, but marked as -04)
S84/22 and S84/23 - A207-820-79-10

I post these because it took me forever to find anyplace that cross-referenced these "S84" identifiers with Mercedes part numbers, so maybe this helps someone.

 

[Pfe550cab]

Hello, all

I've reached my limit of troubleshooting based on the information that I could find in these newsgroups and am hoping someone can help.

Several weeks ago, I jumped into the car (2015 E400 Convertible, LHD), put the top down and drove a mile down the street, parked the car and the top wouldn't go back up.

The windows functioned but nothing from the top--no whining or whirring or anything.

So, I drove back home and parked it in the garage and began prodding. Hooked up the OBD tester thing that I have but no codes. After a while, I was over it and went back inside the house.

A couple of hours later (maybe it was the next day) I went out and tried again and it went right up. No issues.

Over the next week or so (absolutely not trusting it) I was careful about when I put the top up or down. A couple of times, it failed but then would work again after an hour. Sometimes it failed to go up. Sometimes failed to go down. In all cases, the windows, headrests and wind deflector did what they were supposed to do but nothing else. Finally, it stopped working altogether.

I was finally able to get some codes from it (Foxwell 510 Elite, I believe) after it fully stopped working.

ID, Status, Description
B255F24, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid IN CATCH POSITION' has a malfunction. No signal change. Voltage level is too high."
B25452A, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid LOCKED' has a malfunction. There is no signal change."

The first issue that I have is that those codes (B255F24, B25452A) can't be found anywhere that I have access to. They don't seem to be valid Mercedes codes and there is no lookup available from Foxwell.

By doing a ton of research on this forum, it SEEMS like the IN CATCH POSITION is S84/22 and LOCKED is S84/23 (or vice-versa... I tested them and replaced one and they are the same switch). I assumed that because both error codes refer to 'lid' not 'bow' or 'roof'... The terminology is all over the place but I assume 'lid' is the same as 'cover' and not 'top' or 'roof'.

Both of the relevant fuses that I could find (61 and 62, iirc) are fine. I can't find a relay anywhere.

Given that the pump does nothing, I would assume it's either the controller not giving the signal or that there is a fuse or relay somewhere that is bad... Rolling in the fault codes, and given that both of those limit switches tested fine, I assumed it was the N22/6... and replaced it with a reman unit from Mercedes directly... Same story. Clearing those two codes on the Foxwell and rescanning for codes immediately gives me those two codes again.

If I sit in the car (or use the key from the outside) and attempt to put he top down, all of the windows go down, the back seat headrests go down (if they happened to be up) and then nothing happens. No unlatching of the cover, no unlatching of the top at the windshield and no noise from the pump that I can hear.

So, long story longer, N22/6 is replaced and it's unlikely that a freshly remanufactured unit (in my opinion) would be defective in exactly the same way my original one is (assuming it is). The limit switches that I THOUGHT were indicated by the fault codes test s/c and o/c as they should. Fuses 61 and 62 are fine. Can't find a relay anywhere.

The problem was initially intermittent. Maybe someone with intimiate knowledge of the 'top opening steps' could say what the issues is just by where the process stops.

I'm beginning to wonder if the 'lid' in the fault code is a mistranslation and actually refers to the TOP/ROOF in catch position and locked:
...switches
S84/11 (Left soft top "locked" limit switch)
S84/18 (Soft top limit switch in catch position)
... instead of (as I assumed)
S84/22 (Soft top compartment cover in catch position limit switch)
S84/23 (Soft top compartment cover "locked" limit switch)
(And I don't know whether S84/11 and S84/18 being routed to the CANbus have anything to do with how/whether they showed up on my Foxwell tester...)

It's got be either that, a second bad control unit, some other relay/fuse or, I guess, aliens or something. Maybe a ghost.

Anyone make it far enough into this post to have an idea?!

Thanks!
Marshall

---
N22/6 - A207-900-65-00-04 (part I received 207-900-65-00-80, but marked as -04)
S84/22 and S84/23 - A207-820-79-10

I post these because it took me forever to find anyplace that cross-referenced these "S84" identifiers with Mercedes part numbers, so maybe this helps someone.

I have a 2014 C207. I don’t have this problem But will be following for future reference. Good luck.

 

[Scoobydood]

Hi Buddy, I am currently running a '13 A207 E convertible. There are two switches for the lid, which is the cover for the soft top which opens opposite to the boot. These switches have two microswitches in them so there is four in total which interact with the two strike points on the inside of the lid. I had one of the armatures inside the switch break so had to take the unit apart to fix the broken part. Iirc there is some tolerance in the switch unit fitted position so maybe your new switch is not aligned correctly, or the other switch has a fault, or one of the strike points on the lid that contacts the switch is bent.

 

[mjhapp]

Thank you for the reply! are you talking about s84/22 and 23? I pulled both of those, tested them separately and even replaced one because I already bought a new one! Both tested fine, looked lined up and undamaged when I pulled them out and then were reinstalled properly. I feel pretty confident that it’s not a damage or alignment issue.. at least not with those two switches.
The other interesting thing is the ‘voltage too high’ in the error. Not sure how I’d be getting that error on a simple limit switch unless there was an issue with the control module, which was also replaced .. a mystery so far.

 

[Scoobydood]

Don't put too much faith in what the scanner says, Had "Output 3 sensor reference voltage", "Fuel pressure sensor short circuit", recently on M276 CLS400. After having "Parts Cannoneer" fire a couple of salvos with no change I traced the actual wiring and found the fault was the MAP sensor which shared the Output 3 sensor reference voltage line and had an internal short circuit to ground which gave a 1v result instead of a 5v result with the line also having continuity to ground. No mention of MAP sensor on scanner... Try triggering the switch manually. Also trace the wiring from the switch as it is possible that the loom has become detatched and been pinched between moving parts

 

[Scoobydood]

Thinking about your issue, If the system works correctly then as the striker contacts the switch it makes a connection telling the system the lid is in that initial position, then as lid is pulled forward the first switch armature collects a second stage armature which at it's limit contacts the second switch. if it's not hitting the second stage on one side when the other side is triggered then the side not at it's limit will give the wrong feedback. If you have damage to the loom from pinching then you could have two wires exposed and shorting.

 

[mjhapp]

Thanks for the new ideas. I’ll probably go out and play with it today. Any idea how I can try to verify that I’m even looking at the same switches that the scanner thinks are having issues?? I know I’ll have to go over this thing manually but seems irresponsible for me to not check the specific components that the computer thinks are faulty!

 

[Scoobydood]

Clear codes
Unplug wiring loom from switch
Scan codes
check any new codes are referencing same switch

For instance, with the goosed MAP sensor plugged in, I had "Output reference Voltage" and "Fuel Pressure Sensor" as active faults. But after unplugging the MAP sensor I got "MAP Sensor open Circuit" fault with the other faults gone.

 

[mjhapp]

Will do, scoobydood, thank you!

Can anyone reading this also have a look at the fault codes and map them directly to the part numbers of the limit switches in question?

 

[dougrobbinsmvp]

Hello, all

I've reached my limit of troubleshooting based on the information that I could find in these newsgroups and am hoping someone can help.

Several weeks ago, I jumped into the car (2015 E400 Convertible, LHD), put the top down and drove a mile down the street, parked the car and the top wouldn't go back up.

The windows functioned but nothing from the top--no whining or whirring or anything.

So, I drove back home and parked it in the garage and began prodding. Hooked up the OBD tester thing that I have but no codes. After a while, I was over it and went back inside the house.

A couple of hours later (maybe it was the next day) I went out and tried again and it went right up. No issues.

Over the next week or so (absolutely not trusting it) I was careful about when I put the top up or down. A couple of times, it failed but then would work again after an hour. Sometimes it failed to go up. Sometimes failed to go down. In all cases, the windows, headrests and wind deflector did what they were supposed to do but nothing else. Finally, it stopped working altogether.

I was finally able to get some codes from it (Foxwell 510 Elite, I believe) after it fully stopped working.

ID, Status, Description
B255F24, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid IN CATCH POSITION' has a malfunction. No signal change. Voltage level is too high."
B25452A, Stored&Current, "The limit switch 'Soft top compartment lid LOCKED' has a malfunction. There is no signal change."

The first issue that I have is that those codes (B255F24, B25452A) can't be found anywhere that I have access to. They don't seem to be valid Mercedes codes and there is no lookup available from Foxwell.

By doing a ton of research on this forum, it SEEMS like the IN CATCH POSITION is S84/22 and LOCKED is S84/23 (or vice-versa... I tested them and replaced one and they are the same switch). I assumed that because both error codes refer to 'lid' not 'bow' or 'roof'... The terminology is all over the place but I assume 'lid' is the same as 'cover' and not 'top' or 'roof'.

Both of the relevant fuses that I could find (61 and 62, iirc) are fine. I can't find a relay anywhere.

Given that the pump does nothing, I would assume it's either the controller not giving the signal or that there is a fuse or relay somewhere that is bad... Rolling in the fault codes, and given that both of those limit switches tested fine, I assumed it was the N22/6... and replaced it with a reman unit from Mercedes directly... Same story. Clearing those two codes on the Foxwell and rescanning for codes immediately gives me those two codes again.

If I sit in the car (or use the key from the outside) and attempt to put he top down, all of the windows go down, the back seat headrests go down (if they happened to be up) and then nothing happens. No unlatching of the cover, no unlatching of the top at the windshield and no noise from the pump that I can hear.

So, long story longer, N22/6 is replaced and it's unlikely that a freshly remanufactured unit (in my opinion) would be defective in exactly the same way my original one is (assuming it is). The limit switches that I THOUGHT were indicated by the fault codes test s/c and o/c as they should. Fuses 61 and 62 are fine. Can't find a relay anywhere.

The problem was initially intermittent. Maybe someone with intimiate knowledge of the 'top opening steps' could say what the issues is just by where the process stops.

I'm beginning to wonder if the 'lid' in the fault code is a mistranslation and actually refers to the TOP/ROOF in catch position and locked:
...switches
S84/11 (Left soft top "locked" limit switch)
S84/18 (Soft top limit switch in catch position)
... instead of (as I assumed)
S84/22 (Soft top compartment cover in catch position limit switch)
S84/23 (Soft top compartment cover "locked" limit switch)
(And I don't know whether S84/11 and S84/18 being routed to the CANbus have anything to do with how/whether they showed up on my Foxwell tester...)

It's got be either that, a second bad control unit, some other relay/fuse or, I guess, aliens or something. Maybe a ghost.

Anyone make it far enough into this post to have an idea?!

Thanks!
Marshall

---
N22/6 - A207-900-65-00-04 (part I received 207-900-65-00-80, but marked as -04)
S84/22 and S84/23 - A207-820-79-10

I post these because it took me forever to find anyplace that cross-referenced these "S84" identifiers with Mercedes part numbers, so maybe this helps someone.

One time my roof would not close, but following raising and lowering the rear headrests, I was able to close it. I assume that for some reason, the lowering of the headrest by the automatic sequencing did not lower them enough to activate a limit switch. Worth a try if it happens to you.

 

[mjhapp]

To anyone following this thread...

The current thinking on this is that the main switch (S84) is starting to fail.

Again, try to put the top down. Windows go down but nothing happens... Continue to hold the switch but pull it HARDer. To the point I'm afraid it's going to snap off--top goes down. So far, the pull hard trick works consistently.

Not sure why the windows move normally but the switch needs extra what-for to make the roof work unless pulling that lever activates several switches at the same time and only one is failing. Will know more when I extract the offending unit (207-820-74 seems to be the correct switch for S84 on a 2015 E400. )

A weird thing is that, during my testing when the top wouldn't move, using the key from the outside didn't work either. The switch and the key both worked or both didn't. Why would a faulty switch prevent the other method from working? Not sure but it seems to have.

(I'm writing all of this as an update and in case it helps someone else)

Once I got the top down today and started driving, I pushed the "wind deflector/headrest" button and both came up. About a minute later, the wind deflector went down by itself and the little light went off on the switch... but the headrest stayed up and the headrest light stayed on. About 5 mins later, the deflector went back up and the light came on.

Must be a whole batch of switches in that S84 unit and some are going bad. Maybe?

Will post again when the thing is out of the car and on the 'healing bench'

 

[Scoobydood]

Yep, rear headrests. Just having the same issue on '13 a207 with B1DCB24 Right rear headrest limit switch voltage high

 

[Scoobydood]

There is a manual control to raise and lower the headrests in the space between the headrests

 

[mjhapp]

In my case, it's actually the little lever switch in the center console that you lift up to put the top up/down. The thing that is flaky (no doubt because of the same switch GROUP) is the wind deflector on the windscreen, rather than the headrests. Headrests are the only thing working as expected in my driveway!

Crap thing is that I had someone with a professional scanner do a check and they got NO CODES. Yet, my little Foxwell is telling me limit switches are bad. End of the day, though, if the top doesn't go down, I pull harder on the switch and jiggle it a bit and it works a treat.

 

[mjhapp]

Although I've now up the headrests up and down and up and down so many times throughout this..... they'll probably go next.