Mercedes-Benz Forum banner

1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm a new member of this forum, but it's not new to me - I bought my Vito in 2015 and 2 weeks later the plastic key would not turn in the ignition. Since then I have read just about every discussion there has been about not starting, keys not turning, starters not cranking and anything else related to the MB plastic key fobs, ELS, EIS, DAS, ECU etc.

Last time in early 2015, the key would not turn, so ignition didn't switch on and steering lock didn't unlock, driver's window was open and couldn't be closed, So much for security and the safety of MB drivers. Steering was turned quite sharply from getting into the parking space so with the steering being locked, it could not be towed or pushed. Finally a flatbed could not get into the parking area so there was no chance of lifting or towing the Vito out of there.
I Contacted the MB agent but unfortunately they were not interested in our problems.
It's a long story and was a mission to sort out - and to this day nobody knows what caused the problem or what fixed it ?? Could be MB dealership was hiding something?? who knows.

Today my Vito stands in my yard, blocking the garage and it will not start.
Key goes into slot OK and makes a sort of whirring vrrrt sound (ESL i guess}
Key turns to acc OK
It turns to ignition OK and dash lights come on as normal
It also turns one click further to engage the starter but here nothing happens, not a sound, not a click, nothing.

I tried both keys and got the same result so I think we can rule those out.

Vito had stood for about 10 days before the last successful start and it started strong 1st kick.
About 10 minutes later I parked at the local convenience store and when I came back to start it 2 minutes later the problem was there.
I tried many times to start it - but nothing from the starter, not even a click.
Tried holding the key in the start position for a few seconds, tried wiggling it, still nothing.

Tried with a new 652c battery connected to the jumper points under the bonnet - it made no difference so I guess the battery is ok.

The Vito was left at the shops for the day and night.
Following day (a Sunday} A mobile mechanic came to try and assist me. (just a general mack, not a merc expert)
He checked for anything obvious and found nothing - checked battery and said it seemed ok.
Bumped the Vito back and forth while in gear in case starter had stuck. (that seemed like a waste of time to me seeing as there was no sound from the starter so it or the solenoid were obviously not trying to do anything. That sounds to me that power isnt getting to the solenoid - but why not?)

He kept trying the key, holding it for a few seconds, wiggling it about etc. just like I had tried the day before and again that morning without any success, then suddenly the Vito kicked over and started 1st kick.
He ran the motor for a while then switched off and tried again - It started instantly, no problem. Battery turned over strongly, starter motor sounded well and not tired or straining. No odd noises.
He turned off again and it started again perfectly without any hint of a problem.

One more try broke it again and it went back to what it had been doing - key ok, ignition ok, dash lights ok - nothing at all from the next turn to engage the starter.
And that was that, it would not start again.

Next was an attempt at a bump start, so we pushed, and although it should have started quickly and easily - it didn't even fire.
Next attempt, at pushing, mechanic says he held the key in the "start" position (where the starter should be cranking) - This time it started easily and I wouldn't allow it to be turned off until I got it back home and parked.

Vito stood for about 10 days and then I put the battery on a slow charge for about 18 hours until the charger showed that it was fully charged, then I tried starting it - It started perfectly. I left it running for 10 minutes or so then turned off and left it again.
Next day I tried again and it started 1st kick again just like it allways used to.

Another few days later my Son came to visit and brought a cheapy OBDII scanner and wanted to check the vito for any codes.
Before I let that happen, I tried starting the vito and it started perfectly.
I turned off and let the obdII test begin - once plugged into the socket somewhere under the dash by the drivers feet, it seemed to involve turning the ignition on and off several times, but never attempting to start the vehicle.
The obd managed to find a vin number but not much else of interest and no codes that we could see.

After all of that, I tried to start the Vito, but unfortunately it would not crank the starter and is now back in dead mode.

It seems that the keys are good
battery is good
starter seems fine
if it was a blown fuse or relay then it wouldn't have started in recent attempts
I think the same coud be said about the EIS ?
Doesn't seem to be ESL as key works and ign lights come on, plus there is the noise when the key is inserted. I also never ever switch off unless the wheels are straight ahead to avoid letting the ESL click into a locked position. I don't trust it, I've had trouble before and it's been replaced before.
Problem has occurred at any time or in any weather it doesn't seem to matter if it's hot, cold, wet or dry, day or night.

Where do I start looking now to solve this problem?
Vito is a 6 speed manual - is there perhaps a sensor of some sort on the clutch that may stop starter from engaging?
or something similar on the brake pedal?

I'm stumped - Any suggestions or advice will be greatfully accepted

Regards
Mike
 

·
Registered
Vito 114 tourer 2015: Vito 108d 97: 108d 98: Traveliner 2003 ; Aixam; z1100; xbr500; z440 ++++
Joined
·
2,387 Posts
might seem daft but check the vacuum system... especially the headlamp controls

the immobiliser has a vacuum feed and if no vacuum it won't work (when you normally start the immobiliser works with a vacuum produced as the engine turns... the engine vacuum then keeps it on) vacuum is on immobiliser lights (head lamp units and control on dash) brakes and steering.

the unit can perish but is more often knocked... I had the problem following a clutch replacement... sudden loss of brakes and steering at 30mph in birmingham centre wasn't a lot of fun
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
you are right, it does sound daft but I have to try everything and will if I can figure out

where exactly I should look to find this vacuum unit, what does it look like, and

how can I test a vacuum system when the motor won't start and won't even crank over?

thanks for your response
 

·
Registered
Vito 114 tourer 2015: Vito 108d 97: 108d 98: Traveliner 2003 ; Aixam; z1100; xbr500; z440 ++++
Joined
·
2,387 Posts
my one had a pipe that had simply come off a headlight.

it was great fun, stuck in the middle of birminghams bullring with no brakes, engine or steering... blocking all lanes in one direction.

I learnt a few new words from bus and taxi drivers.... I was there for 2hrs in the middle of a friday rush hour.

good luck
malcolm
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
I've just had a look around and found the vacuum pipe.
It seems to still be attached so I guess it's not the cause of my starter not cranking.

I had another go at starting the Vito (I do that often lately), but still no luck, key goes in and key turns, ignition lights on ok, turn key fully right to engage starter and nothing, not a sound or click or dim lights, just nothing.

Oh well, back to the drawing board.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
Hi Les, thanks for your input,
I guess that at this stage it could be anything - it is so frustrating.
I will keep adding to the list of possibilities and will eventually work through all of them until I find the answer.

If it is a crank pos sensor would I get a warning light on the dash?
or would there be a code that I could pick up with an OBD2 tester?
If not either of the above, how would I go about testing it?
Regards
Mike
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
Today - Something different with my No Start Vito 115 cdi...

The Vito has been standing for about 3 weeks and would not kick over the starter even though key and ignition all seemed ok.

I have tried a start virtually every day since the problem got bad about 3 weeks back, and it's always the same, key ok, ign lights on, no starter crank or click or anything when key turned full right.

Today we tried again for about the thirtieth time...
-Key in key slot - ok
-Key to 2nd pos, aux - ok
-Key to 3rd pos, ignition - ok
-Key to start pos - MOTOR CRANKED OVER PERFECTLY AND STARTED QUICK AND STRONG just like it used to.
-The Idling was perfect too.

This was a great feeling and quite a pleasant surprise - BUT it adds to my confusion about the cause of the problem and how to find and fix it.

I took it out for a 5 or 6km drive and everything was perfect - Didn't switch off until it was safely home and in it's parking.
I have not been brave enough to try another start yet - just couldn't face the depression of another failure.
I will try that some time later - and will report back on the response.

So far we have ruled out the following...
-Keys ... both work fine
-ESL works fine (was replaced 10,000km back, failed again after 1,000km and fixed by agent again - since then it's ok)
-EIS must be ok because the vehicle just started up nicely without any wiggling or messing about with the key.
-Battery must be ok - crank and start was good and strong.
-Fuses and relays all seem ok - everything worked this time.
-I don't think it could have been crank position sensor (as suggested) because it has started and run well.
-Wasn't anything to do with vacuum (as suggested), that checked ok, plus the vehicle has just run ok.

Next things to check I'm guessing will be connections to starter / starter solenoid, and probably all the earth connections that I can find.

any other ideas?
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
Top