1986 560SL hp increase

BRNN53 - 3/2/2005 4:04 PM

I'm curious. Are you in Europe, and if so, why import an American market SL when you can find more powerful models there? I own an Euro 500SL that I bought because it has more hp than the US market vehicles. You won't gain much more power with your listed mods but an increase should be seen.
Mike
1984 Euro 500SL

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I am curious what you are basing your answer on? I have been asking for cam data on another thread regarding the 380, and while I do not mean to argue, your answer seems very typical. Who cares why he bought a US car? Our dollar is weak as crap right now and there will be a flood of our cars leaving for Europe as a result. Sadly, with our EPA and safety laws, many will never be allowed to return.
If there is anyone out there who really wants to look into this, consider that a US 560 is only generating 41 HP per liter. This is so rediculously low as to be a joke. A Geo Metro makes more power per liter. I own a 380 and am looking into a cam change for it. I realise its a bit low on compression, but it should still respond well if what it has now is what I believe to be drastically advanced camshaft timimg with narrow duration and low lift. I havnt found anyone with any data on any MB engine regarding lift, duration, or valve timing. If I find some, and people stop slamming me or calling me thick for asking, I will post anything I find.
I own a 77 Ferrari 308. The 308 is presently spread all over my garage for rebuilding. There is a vast amount of information from fellow enthusiasts, that show that cars with the CIS system were generally given advanced valve timing and short duration for several reasons. One was emissions, another was reliability, another was that reversion with hotter cams can fool the CIS and screw up fuel management. But in dyno testing different cam profiles, it was shown that mildly hot retarded cams would still drive well, so that the reversion problem may not be a great issue. Lucky for me I have a carb version with hot factory cams.
The 380 SL I own, I plan on doing something to bring up its performance. I dont know where it will go, as it seems there are no enthusiasts interested in hotting up a 380 MB. But I would rather install a couple cams and live with some better performance, than change the engine out. Man, with the cost of a good repaint alone at $6-8K, a 380 is a bargain if it can be made to at least move out of its own way.
I think hot cams in a 560 could make a drastic difference in performance, especially if there is some knowledge of what has worked in the past. I know Renntech was making some cams for 380,500,560, one size fit all, but I have no knowledge of the profile. As far as removing cats, they probably wouldnt make a great difference until you reach higher HP which will by nature require greater flow. I mean, looking at it as two four cylinders, its only 1.9 liters. A 1.9 should easily make 100 HP with no trouble, so your 560 could make 300 HP with little trouble, all things being equal. Thats still only 52 HP per liter. A little bit more than a big Briggs and Statton industrial engine makes.

Balsa,consider the other side of the power/weight ratio.I believe in searching for ways to cut the weight of the car.I have seen Porsche guys spend thousands to get another 100 HP.Look around for ways to get the weight down...within reason,of course,don't take the seats out!

I went with Euro bumpers on my 560SL for obvious better appearance but also to save some weight.I will get rid of cat as soon as I can to cut back pressure and weight.Leave the hardtop in the garage.Modern tires don't usually fail so why haul the spare and jack forever?

Consider the weight and parasitic loss of the air pump.Run the lightest wheels you can find.Get a first gear start and set 1-2 shift at 15 mph or whatever is good for you.

The 107's will never be known as 0-60 sprinters but do what you can live with.

I always admired Colin Chapman(Lotus cars)and his "simplify and lighten" goal.

Just some food for thought.

Best Regards,ch7ckc
1987 560 SL

Some good ideas here, the exhaust being the cheapest first fix. Shedding weight is also good, but pretty much destroys the car if enough is shed to make a difference. Diff gearing can also do some good, but at the cost of mileage and top speed - if you are in a country that allows speeds over 70mph keep this in mind.
I would like to add though - for what it's worth - squeezing more tangible horsepower and torque from the 560 is a pretty straight forward deal, like with any well designed gas motor. It can be done using turbo(s) or supercharging, and in both cases gutting the K-Jetronic fuel system in favor of true engine management. Motec is a good system - my choice anyway, but there are others. Any system's fine that allows real-time mapping of fuel and ignition, and is boost compensating. The ability to also control alcohol injection will allow you higher boosts without increasing fuel burn time (octane). If you go this route, you don't need a very exotic exhaust system. Ditching the cats and installing two 2 1/2" pipes will be fine. You can shed the stock mufflers for turbo type baffles both to reduce resistance, and because the turbines quiet the exhaust to a certain extent. The car will still be relatively quiet. The factory shape and length of Y-pipes are fine, the turbo motor won't care. Twin small turbine/compressor assemblies are better for a street car and easier to install on a v8 in a tight engine bay. You'll want to lock out your distributor advance, as most systems electronically control advance and maximum rpm within settings. The stock ignition is good for twice the rpm your motor will ever survive, so leave it. Considering your motor's mileage, and the greater combustion pressures, you would be wise to service your heads, helicoil the block and have copper O-ring'd head gaskets made up for it. Depending on the climate conditions in you're area, you may or may not need a larger capacity cooling system. All this is expensive . . real horsepower is expensive. With the addition of an intercooler, these modifications would net you about 400hp and a 70% increase in torque with conservative boost on pump gas. The 560 has pretty efficient heads - leave the combustion chambers alone. If you play with cams, keep duration short and go with the highest lift you can swing. Don't mess with timing or lobe centers - it's a waste of time. You'll have to clay your squish area to see what lift increase your motor will handle, but close to a half inch total lift may be possible, but longer springs and shimming to reset geometry will be required. Maintain at least .050 clearance to the piston crown to accommodate rod stretch at high rpm. Greater lift doesn't necessarily require harder springs if you keep the rpm within factory limits, but use only US Manley or German springs, and test/measure them before installation. If you're a real menace, you might think about sending your pistons out for a ceramic coating. I did this on a 2.4 ltr Scat motor I built for my 58'Carerra. It's been reliable so far . . . The tiny thing grunted out 290hp at 6000rpm on the tired old dyno with only 10lb boost. . . and torque to the moon. If you go with a supercharger, consider the Eaton. It bypasses intake air under light loads, so the charger maintains a cooler static temperature and has longer life. Mercedes, Ford, GM, and Volvo all use the Eaton supercharger on various trucks/cars. Again, exhaust is less of an exotic issue here as long as flow is not too restricted. Too bad you’re not here in Southern California where we can’t leave anything alone. A buddy of mine is a Mercedes independent. He has a great chassis dyno at his shop they use for such enterprises. He races an old 300SL. I just butcher old German cars 'cause they're easy victims
Jed

You can get a nice true dual system fairly easily into that car. You may want to look into Euro manifolds though, they are more akin to headers etc and should give you a few HP. Also, adapting a dual snorkel intake from an SEL or SEC would help. These cars are starved for air w/ the standard set up.

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Do you know of any dealers/wrecking yards/recyclers that carry euro manifolds? Specifically those that would fit a 560SL?

Also, when it comes time to rebuild your transmission you can have FGS built into the valve body, it's a very easy mod from what my trans guys have told me.

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The First Gear Start Module - seems expensive - and like a quick way to wear the tranny and kill mileage.

Does anyone have any more info on the results of installing the Bergworks Mod?

I would wager you could track down some AMG cam specs or the cams themselves for a bit more kick.

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I have read a couple posts discussing swapping the stock cams for some with a low duration and high lift.

Anyone know where to find these and/or some AMG cams for the 560SL?

Sorry for all the questions.

I'm new to Benz but you all seem very well versed on Mercedes and the SL.