Mercedes-Benz Forum banner
1 - 20 of 35 Posts

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Tried to get my 1987 2.3-16v running better and now I have a clear problem. no fuel pressure at the injectors. plenty at the pump and inlet to the distributor and to the fuel pressure regulator and it starts first time on the starter injector (electronic), pressure at inlet to the EHA but no pressure at the injector lines, changed the distrutor for a good one complete with EHA, still dry. checked VOR and pump relay, well both pumps work and plenty of pressure, so, ok. I feel itsnot getting past the EHA but I don't know why.
Help, I know it's something stupid.
by the way no fancy stuff like Lamdas, O2 sensors or cat. etc. this model is very basic in that regard.
 

·
Premium Member
'92 MB W201 2.3, '10 MB X164 GL550 4Matic, '14 MB W218 CLS550 4Matic
Joined
·
913 Posts
Kindly, update your profile with year/model/engine type and size/location as such information will help alotin providing correct information

In regard of the problem you're having, please update us

Thanks
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
did you disconnect an injector line and poured it's content into a cup? Make sure you only have the pump the running by bypassing with a short the fuel relay pump.
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
1987 190E W201 2.3-16v
Yes I disconnected injection lines, all 4, that's how I know they are dry.
Pumps (2) running, both on ignition and jumping 30 to 87 on relay block.

Pressure at distributor. fuel pressure regultator, small pipe from distributor to FPR, starter injector and EHA inlet but not injectors.
Fuel returning to tank after full prsesure reached, flow rate at about 1 liter in 40 seconds from pumps at inlet to distributor.

Car starts and runs for 2 seconds on starter injector, remove connector from elecrtonic starter injector and car does not start, reconnect it and starts first time.
Changed distributor for one with last three numbers 020 from the original 002 and back, no difference.
Changed FPR from a 2ltr, no difference.
Changed air flap unit, no change,
Changed EHA, twice (I have three), no change, all EHA buzz on signel voltage.
Had car running fine for 10 minuets, ticked over at 900, just needed a slight tune as it ws 'hunting' a bit.
Switched off, two minuets later I had the problem as above and still do.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
When you say pressure at distributor, where did you test that? There is also a test outlet for the lower distributor chamber.
Can you take pictures of your CIS tool as you test pressure?
To test for pressure differential you will need to connect to the output for the cold start valve (upper chamber) and another connection to the test outlet (lower chamber) to verify if the distributor is acting properly.
How do you know that your EHA is set up properly? Did you measure the current through the EHA? If working the current value should be between -1mA and 2mA.
If the EHA is buzzing, you have a signal issue and you may have to swap a controller/computer.
Have you checked the block temp sensor? That one could be sending a signal to the computer for a shutdown.
Check, check and double check!
;)
 

·
Premium Member
'92 MB W201 2.3, '10 MB X164 GL550 4Matic, '14 MB W218 CLS550 4Matic
Joined
·
913 Posts
Good points Drew
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
I only have a simple single dial gauge, can't afford the $300 for a kit so I have to make and do a bit but I know there is plenty of pressure, at least 7 bar, at the inlet pipe, the one from the tank that screws into the distributor, same pressure on the pipe out of the distributor to the FPR, flow rate checked on first pipe and exit from FPR. When I say all the EHAs’ buzz, I mean if I apply a small voltage to them, proves they are not stuck, anyway what are the chances of all three being duff, especially if two of them came from running engines as did the test 020 distributor and the current 002 distributor.
Like I said, the engine ran well until I switched it off, it still starts first time, every time but will not run as there is no fuel at all in the injector lines. What is it within the distributor that stops fuel from getting from the lower chamber to the injectors? Could it be that although I have plenty of pressure coming in from the pumps it’s not enough to open internal valves or something? Bearing in mind thanks to a so called Bosch specialist in Malaga it was running on one pump for a year (albeit poorly) until I replaced the second one so even without testing I can’t see there being a problem in the pump area, unless both have decided to go low at the same time.

Hardware rundown
Mercedes W210 2.3-16v Cosworth Born 09 April 1987
Vin WDB2010341F355564
Engine 102 983 10 01621
Trans,717404 10 016217
No Lambda, no 02 sensor, No Cat. (EZE)

Distributor; 0438 101 002
Air meter; 438 121 044 –LM0007
Fuel pressure regulator; 0438 161 006
Fuel relay; 033 545 24 05
Voltage overload relay; Mercedes number 2618403745m Siemens’ number 5WKT 762-10A 123v (with 2 x 10Amp fuses)
All EHA s are common as we know.
Bosch fuel pumps, two of, both running
Throttle stop micro switch OK

spare parts on hand;

Distributors
0348 101 010
0438 101 020

Air flap units
0348 121 001 LM 0001
0438 121 022 LM 0003

Fuel Pressure regulator
0468 161 001

Fuel pump relay
001 545 78 05
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
The metering slit inside the fuel distributor should move up or down based on the pressure DIFFERENTIAL between the upper and lower chambers. If that's not moving then you will not get gasoline out to the injectors PERIOD.
1. The fuel distributor is bad
2. EHA not set properly (turn the adjustment screw)
3. EHA receiving the wrong signal
4. NO GAS to the distributor
5. You need some blinker fluid

 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Well we can discount one as the current distributor was working fine three days ago and in the donor car before that, the spare one was stripped, cleaned, checked all valves, ceramic discs, springs, plunger, O rings etc and reassembles with original settings.

Two, All three are set to factory settings.

Three Possible, but why, what is it that could shut down the transfer of fuel to the injectors?

Four, well, I think we have done that one to death, loads of fuel, so much so I have had to stop working in the garage for a couple of days because of the fumes.

Five, really? I thought it was a lack of ‘Injin juice’ around the snoggle grommets. We don’t have Blinker fluid here, would ‘Fraking fluid’ do?

 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I tried a long weight on the Distributor and a new packet of sparks in the coil, even used up a whole bottle of virgin water in the radiator for the temp sensor as well as twisting the flange sprocket on the differential hyperlink, still nuffin'.
Seriously though, I really need to get this pig running as it's costing me 179€ a week to hire a car untill the A170 is fixed just so the wife can go to work to earn 179€ a week
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
Dude, count that as a blessing. The wife is out working while you're in the garage playing with tools.
Since you have a spare fuel distributor, why don't you get one of those power bleeders and fill it with gasoline. Attach the power bleeder to the distributor inlet then crank up the pressure. Apply some voltage to the EHA to get the metering slit to move (use a 9V battery with a resistor in series to limit the current) if no gas comes out then you have a stuck metering thingy inside. What do you think?
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
OK Joking apart, anyone got any ideas on dry injectors 'cause I'm going nuts here. :crybaby2: :surrender:
"Attach the power bleeder to the distributor inlet then crank up the pressure. Apply some voltage to the EHA to get the metering slit to move (use a 9V battery with a resistor in series to limit the current) " When you say that what voltage would be correct, I have a set of 5 LP45 button batteries giving a low current 7.2 volts, which makes the EHA buzz on the bench, 12v makes it click. I have a twin cable lead with small female connector on so I can extend the connection from the EHA so what would be the best way to synthesise the input signal for tick over?
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just tried jumping 30 and 87 on pump relay, still no start, pumps run OK though.
Checked ignition switch is holding +15 when returning from start position, OK
Next trick is to remove pump/filter package and eliminate any possibility of there being a problem at the rear of the car which I don't think there, but that's the bugger that normal bits yer in the bum. The thing it can't possibly be, quite often is.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
0 Posts
If you're getting gasoline to the cold start injector then maybe your main line is fine.
Get a CIS tool and inspect the fuel pressure by disconnecting the cold start outlet on the fuel distributor and connecting the tool to it. At this point you have no choice but to test pressure properly and stop the shade tree mechanic mentality.
Once you get a reading then measure the lower chamber pressure. To do that connect to the test outlet on the fuel distributor.

 

·
Registered
190e 2.3-16v manual
Joined
·
17 Posts
mine did this after i had stripped it all (2.3-16)

all that i had to do was adjust the mixture so that i had just 1mm of play before the afm plate hit the fuel distr plunger then it started on the button seconds later

really ! only half a turn of the allen key was all that was stopping my fuel getting to the lines !
once it was running it just needed micro adjustment to get it setup

prob not what is wrong with yours but thought i should add this as it worked for me

how much play do you have in your plate before it hits the fuel plunger ?
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
I have about 1mm before it hits. I have set the plunger stop so it's just closes the slits by a micron and not passing passing fuel through the slits on bottom as per Bosch static settings i.e the bottom of the top part of the plunger is just below the bottom of the slits at rest. I have downloaded the Bosch K-tronic booklet, which after one has thrown away the first half, idiots guide to four strokes and injection systems section, is still a mile off of the system used in the Mercedes but is near enough to be helpful.
One rule, forget the whole section on knocking the pin up and down to adjust the flap height, it's discribed weirdly, doesn't mention it has to be done with the stop bar removed and best left alone, it's set at the factory and under normal conditions will not move from flush with the casting surface.
From what I read, if there is residual pressure in the upper section with pumps running and if you have the injector pipes undone, fuel will come out if the flap is pressed as this opens the slits, mine doesn't.


I have turned the Allen key from stop 3 turns clockwise to 5 turns clockwise which is well either side of standard by 1/32 of a turn as a time. Even with the flow plate not touching, or even moving, the set up should be that the car starts and ticks over, but it starts on the electronic starter injector for two seconds but then dies. It may be a case of getting pressure but not the one litre in 40 seconds flow rate required (or visa versa), so I'm going to remove the whole pump / filter package, back flush the pumps with diesel and fit a new filter before I try anything else. All I need is a way to disconnect the fuel pipe from the pump assembly without getting petrol all over the floor, I did think of hot wiring the pump connectors 30 + 87 after disconnecting the outlet pipe from the filter and pumping the tank dry into containers.
 

·
Registered
190e 2.3-16v manual
Joined
·
17 Posts
I have about 1mm before it hits. I have set the plunger stop so it's just closes the slits by a micron and not passing passing fuel through the slits on bottom as per Bosch static settings
One rule, forget the whole section on knocking the pin up and down to adjust the flap height, it's discribed weirdly, doesn't mention it has to be done with the stop bar removed and best left alone, it's set at the factory and under normal conditions will not move from flush with the casting surface.
Hi again
shame its not that simple then
just thought it was worth a mention

i'm not sure what the static position of the plunger should be at was told but cant remember now

as for adjusting the plate via the pin
i set up my old plate this way with no problem
it had moved and the plate was too high because of a backfire at some point.

the top plate did not have to be removed
but i did remove the rubber base from the afm to set it up
the plate has to aligned under the stop bar at the top of the chamfer inner wing side.

thats about all the info i can give on this topic

hope someone helps you get it fixed soon
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
O.K. Today I totally pulled the pump pack and stripped it, cleaned it and back-flushed it. Before I pulled it I drained the tank by running the pumps and filling containers, the flow rate was in the region of 1.5L per 40 seconds, well above the 1l per 40 seconds needed.
Both pumps are Bosch 059 (EPK 4) MB 002 091 97 01 units and working well, filter is as clean as a whistle and accumulator always held residual pressure fine.???????? Back in tomorrow as I’m about to pass out from fumes.
 

·
Registered
2001 A170 CDi. '87 BMW 320i. '95 Eagle SS Kit car, '99 Suzuki AN400X
Joined
·
177 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Ready to back on, nearly as good as new and spotless inside and out


I'll let you know how it goes later.
 
1 - 20 of 35 Posts
Top