Super Audio CD (SACD) Support in NTG3/NTG3.5? - Mercedes-Benz Forum
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-23-2019, 09:32 PM Thread Starter
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Super Audio CD (SACD) Support in NTG3/NTG3.5?

Hello all,

I do not have any SACDs to test, but there is reference in the code of the NTG3 software that references Super Audio CDs. I find it hard to believe the NTG3 will actually play them, but am curious if anyone with a W221 that happens to own SACDs has ever attempted playback of one? Since DVD-A and SACD became competing standards (very similar to HD-DVD and Blu-ray) it would be unlikely for both formats to be supported on the same hardware by the same company (or supplier, which in this case is Harmon Becker). They obviously support DVD-Audio, so this leads me to believe it is not likely, but if anyone happens to have an SACD to try, I would be interested in the result. I do know all of the other formats listed below ARE supported, and the VCD discs are not documented anywhere, but I happen to own one and tried it and it had no problem at all playing the video back very smoothly. Below is the code I am referring to in the NTG3.0 software:

Code:
Received disk type CD audio with linear PCM!!!
Received disk type CD audio with DTS!!!
Received disk type MP3 cd!!!
Received disk type DVD audio!!!
Received disk type Super CD audio !!!
Received disk type DVD video!!!
Received disk type VCD or SVCD !!!
Thanks!
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 05:59 AM
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Wow, so that's some interesting code you've found! I never quite got into the SACD phase, however I have seen at least two multi-mode CD/DVD players that support SACD as well as VCD, MP3 and the lot. Sony and Onkyo are the brands that come to mind. If I had one I would certainly give it a spin!
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 07:05 AM Thread Starter
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Wow, so that's some interesting code you've found! I never quite got into the SACD phase, however I have seen at least two multi-mode CD/DVD players that support SACD as well as VCD, MP3 and the lot. Sony and Onkyo are the brands that come to mind. If I had one I would certainly give it a spin!
It is hard to justify purchasing one as I do feel it is very unlikely to work, as that would be a selling point that would be advertised I would think next to the DVD-Audio logo on the display when an optical disc is loaded, but there would be a small chance. I have owned other DVD-Audio units and have a collection of DVD-Audio discs as well as authored my own from files purchased from HDtracks.com. That is one of the features I greatly enjoy in the W221 is the DTS 5.1 support and support for high resolution audio. The DVD changer generally contains live music in DTS 5.1 which makes that system in the car really shine (where on the contrary I often hear complaints from people disappointed in the sound quality however I believe they would change their mind if they evaluated a DVD-A in DTS 5.1 or 192k 96-bit media).

One thing that never really caught on however is mentioned in the code are DTS Audio CDs. They are in 5.1 surround sound however compression must be used to fit those channels onto a CD-ROM format medium. Theoretically the COMAND should have a potential of SACD playback as the high resolution music on SACD is recorded using the same standard method as DVD discs, and when flipped over it has the same recording but in CD-Audio format at 44.1k 16-bit. Obviously the CD side would play, but since the COMAND does have DVD optics and the components to process 5.1 and high resolution, it is possible it could surprise us. I still have strong doubts simply because of the DVD-A support, but I could be wrong.

I don't think I ever recall seeing (back when they were produced) a HD-DVD and Blu-ray combination player which causes me to come to this conclusion.

One device does buck this trend, however - https://www.oppodigital.com/blu-ray-udp-205/. It does play SACD and 4k Blu ray, as well as DVD-Audio/Video, etc. Of course with the decline of optical media sales this product only was purchased by audiophiles and didn't sell enough in quantity to justify production to continue. Many resellers snagged up the remaining stock of them when it was announced they would no longer be manufactured, and marked them up as much as 100% and they were selling them.
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-24-2019, 01:03 PM
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So, are you telling me that I can get true DTS 5.1 sound!!?!!? Holy guacamole I'm in. I grew up playing keys and trombone and lots of jazz and classical and a bit of the popular stuff (because my friends made me). I'd love to hear the great sound that this system can produce.

Do you have a process documented for creating the DVD-A's or is it pretty straightforward?
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 02:42 AM Thread Starter
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So, are you telling me that I can get true DTS 5.1 sound!!?!!? Holy guacamole I'm in. I grew up playing keys and trombone and lots of jazz and classical and a bit of the popular stuff (because my friends made me). I'd love to hear the great sound that this system can produce.

Do you have a process documented for creating the DVD-A's or is it pretty straightforward?
There are a few applications that can author DVD-A discs - but unfortunately one of the Windows authoring tools, made by Cirlinca, has been discontinued, and the company no longer seems to be in operation.

Here is a good reference:

https://www.hdtracks.com/other-resources

I fortunately acquired Cirlinca's product before they closed down (this occurred in the past two months or so) and I think since this format has such little interest nowadays, it didn't cover their overhead. It is designed for Windows, and can be run under a virtual machine in OS X under VMware Fusion, etc. Another application, Burn!, is an OS X native application that has not been updated in some time, is open source, and free., but is not as powerful as some of the others.

Cinlinca's applications focused more on on multi-channel music authoring a true 5.1 high-resolution DVD, where the others are mostly focused on authoring DVD discs storing 2-channel high resolution audio discs.

There was a trial version of Cirlinca's application available for download. I may still have it if you would like to test it. If interested, send me a PM and I search for it.

Regretfully, audio technology is going more toward convenience and profits instead of advancing the quality of the recordings. I am still waiting for the day artists release the multi-track masters from the recording sessions instead of having to rely on leaked copies. I do not mind at all paying for quality music, but do have a problem paying the same price for compressed, lossy, low dynamic range music when it costs the same or more than a Compact Disc at 44.1.k/16-bit.

HDTracks.com is a legal way to acquire high-resolution audio files in multi formats from a wide range of artist, including the recently released Led Zeppelin x Led Zeppelin (96k/24-bit), to classical music and jazz masterpieces. I believe artists such as Led Zeppelin have made their entire catalog available in high-resolution, and many Beatles material is available as well.

HDTracks is typically not in 5.1, but only high resolution, so it is good to listen to on your computer, as well as being able to record it on a DVD-Video disc that is playable on any DVD player, and a multisession DVD with DVD-Video and DVD-Audio formats combined.

I usually attempt to locate concerts of my favorites artists and generally you will get compressed music (not MP3 level compressed) but also get the 480p video, as well as your choice of 2-channel stereo, DTS 5.1, and Dolby Digital 5.1 on one DVD.

One modern artist I enjoy is John Mayer, and he has released much of his material in 96/24-bit.

Search for your favorite material and see what is available, as well as Amazon for pressed DVD-Audio or DVD-Video discs in concert. It will make the HK system really shine. (also, disable Logic 7 to disable the faux surround sound to hear the actual surround sound channels as the producer intended.)
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-28-2019, 01:22 PM
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Well that's really cool! Sad that the DTS 5.1 died out. I found an image of the Mercedes S-Class CD (see below) that demonstrates the 5.1 and burned it to disc this morning. AMAZING difference! And definitely not a fan of the pseudo surround setting, always have that turned off.

I'll give your suggestions a try, my local Classical station (must have for commuting!) has been having some signal strength issues and violins sometimes sound like fishing line and an oil can.

Thank you for taking the time to show me the way!
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by dlafever View Post
Well that's really cool! Sad that the DTS 5.1 died out. I found an image of the Mercedes S-Class CD (see below) that demonstrates the 5.1 and burned it to disc this morning. AMAZING difference! And definitely not a fan of the pseudo surround setting, always have that turned off.

I'll give your suggestions a try, my local Classical station (must have for commuting!) has been having some signal strength issues and violins sometimes sound like fishing line and an oil can.

Thank you for taking the time to show me the way!
Would you be able to share a link tho that image? Would love try it out. Thanks.

Never mind. Found it.
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 04-29-2019, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by w2830 View Post
Would you be able to share a link tho that image? Would love try it out. Thanks.
Sure! I burned it using EAC (Exact Audio Copy), here's the link to the source.

Download VA - Harman Kardon Logic 7 - Transported To A New Reality in surround format DTS 5.1

I have to think it was provided with new W221 cars at delivery, but used S550 just came with the 9.4 million pages of manuals.
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 05-02-2019, 01:38 AM
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Would you be able to share a link tho that image? Would love try it out. Thanks.
Sure! I burned it using EAC (Exact Audio Copy), here's the link to the source.

Download VA - Harman Kardon Logic 7 - Transported To A New Reality in surround format DTS 5.1

I have to think it was provided with new W221 cars at delivery, but used S550 just came with the 9.4 million pages of manuals.
Thanks for the info. Consider yourself lucky to have that manual at least. Mine didnt even come with it.
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 06-01-2019, 01:20 AM
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Sure! I burned it using EAC (Exact Audio Copy), here's the link to the source.

Download VA - Harman Kardon Logic 7 - Transported To A New Reality in surround format DTS 5.1

I have to think it was provided with new W221 cars at delivery, but used S550 just came with the 9.4 million pages of manuals.
Ok, what the heck am I doing wrong??? I downloaded from the link above using Ex-Load(because it was the free one). It was a RAR file. I used 7-Zip to unzip the RAR and now I have a jpg, a CUE file and a WAV. When I play the WAV, I hear static. When I burn a disc using the CUE file, I get 6 labeled tracks of static. Did the original go kaput or am I overlooking something? I wouldn't think I'd need a codec because I'm on a Windows 10 machine.
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